Crosses In Churches

[Hpwillis]

This is something I've been wondering about for a year now. Our last church has all but removed the cross from the building. It's still on the outside, but it's gone from their stage, facebook logo and drum set. Our current church still has one on the stage. I would prefer to see it somewhere in and on the building, but what is correct? Do we see early Christians adorning their houses or places they gathered with one? To me not having one around makes the building seem like any other place. Sort of like they're erasing God. It's not something to be worshiped, but for me it is a reminder of the sacrifice He made for me. Wanting to hear some other thoughts on this.

[Pastor Guest]

This is something I've been wondering about for a year now. Our last church has all but removed the cross from the building. It's still on the outside, but it's gone from their stage, facebook logo and drum set. Our current church still has one on the stage. I would prefer to see it somewhere in and on the building, but what is correct? Do we see early Christians adorning their houses or places they gathered with one? To me not having one around makes the building seem like any other place. Sort of like they're erasing God. It's not something to be worshiped, but for me it is a reminder of the sacrifice He made for me. Wanting to hear some other thoughts on this.

It would probably be a good idea to ask the pastor why the crosses have been removed.

[Hpwillis]

When we were attending there I did ask. The drum set is new and didn't come with one. The free standing cross on the stage was going to be in the way of the screen or something. It came back later, but is now gone.

[CaryC]

This is something I've been wondering about for a year now. Our last church has all but removed the cross from the building. It's still on the outside, but it's gone from their stage, facebook logo and drum set. Our current church still has one on the stage. I would prefer to see it somewhere in and on the building, but what is correct? Do we see early Christians adorning their houses or places they gathered with one? To me not having one around makes the building seem like any other place. Sort of like they're erasing God. It's not something to be worshiped, but for me it is a reminder of the sacrifice He made for me. Wanting to hear some other thoughts on this.

Understand your wishes, and like PG might need to ask the Pastor. Lot's of places/churches are going more for the PC in sermons, and decorations.

However, concerning your question about early Christians:

Kind of depends on what you mean by "early". Before 312 AD no they did not, it would of been an advertisement as to their faith, and was an invitation to be arrested. They met in secret. Actually the sign of the "fish" was what they used to reveal who they were, and you would only know that if you were a Christian. As they met in different homes around the city. Eventually they would go underground and live in catacombs under the city as in Rome. No such thing existed as an outreach program where they went door to door evangelizing.

In 312 AD Christianity became an accepted religion, free from persecution by the state.

In 391 AD Constantine's grandson in the Edict of Thessalonica, made Christianity the state religion, outlawing all other religions, including meeting in peoples homes, and home Bible Studies/Fellowships such as they were. Much in the same way the Church of England came into being, the monarch wanted to appoint Bishops, and there was a falling out with the Pope of Rome, so the monarch won, and took over "the Church".

In general Crucifixes or Crosses came into being in the early 700's in the Byzantine Empire, and started adorning churches, mostly on a wall behind the altar.

A distinction probably arose during the Reformation between plain Crosses for Protestant, and Crucifixes for the RCC, however I don't have any documentation for that, but will look if you need it.

Even today underground churches in places like China, Syria, Iran, etc. probably don't have crosses that they put up on their homes, for the same reasons they didn't in the first century.

And I suspect that as churches become more progressive, seeker friendly, emergent, and PC those things will disappear. Even as those who hold to the faith, will be sought out, and come under persecution more and more, and eventually go underground again.

2 cents

[Hpwillis]

It may be that I, like many others, grew up with it in church and so we think it needs to be there still. I saw a youtube video that listed some things that are in church, but aren't in the Bible. I can't seem to google that list. It sure would be interesting. The church that I am referring and used to attend would most likely be considered 'Seeker Friendly' as it was modeled after Willow Creek.

[CaryC]

It may be that I, like many others, grew up with it in church and so we think it needs to be there still. I saw a youtube video that listed some things that are in church, but aren't in the Bible. I can't seem to google that list. It sure would be interesting. The church that I am referring and used to attend would most likely be considered 'Seeker Friendly' as it was modeled after Willow Creek.

I can give you a short list LOL.

'Seeker Friendly' churches have a tendency to not do, say, or decorate with anything that is offensive. Don't want to offend anyone and drive them away.

As in my original post/reply it depends on how far back you want to go.

There was no such thing as church buildings, so.....

No Pulpits, altars, pews, stained glass windows, or anything that can be associated with a building, like foyers, sanctuaries, baptismals, etc.

There was no such thing as Sunday School until the late 1700's when Frakes instituted it to educate children in the 3 R's since they worked 12 hour days, 6 days a week. Which means no Sunday School Teachers.

There was no such thing as Wed. Night Prayer Meeting/Bible Study until 1918 when some women in the NE asked to be given time at the church for prayer for our Dough Boys going to fight in WWI.

Since Sunday wasn't a sanctioned day of worship by the government until 391, and considered a day off, and business closures, most Christians worked on Sunday and got together on Sunday Evening in people's homes, meaning no Sunday AM Worship Service. Some people fell asleep and fell out of windows Sunday Night. LOL

And that's a short list. LOL

[Hpwillis]

That's the kind of info I would find interesting, but can't seem to find it. Maybe it's not written down and people like you just know it?

[CaryC]

That's the kind of info I would find interesting, but can't seem to find it. Maybe it's not written down and people like you just know it?

O good grief, now your saying I've got esoteric knowledge. LOL

Naw, part of it is simple deduction. Because Christianity was a forbidden religion, actually, because they didn't believe Cesar was God, they were considered unbelievers, if you can get that logic, they were hunted and killed. That can be easily found in history books. However, because of that, buildings were not instituted. Simple.

Add to that no where in the New Testament are we instructed, in how to construct a building for worship, AND in the Old Testament very specific instructions were given in construction of the Temple, meaning if Christians were meant to have a building, surely some kind of blueprint would of been given, even as with the gifts of the Spirit.

Therefore all buildings and the things housed in buildings are human constructs, and not Biblical.

That doesn't mean once Christianity became ......accepted, that it wasn't more convenient to have a specific place to gather, to house the many Christians in a certain local. When the Pilgrims came on the Mayflower, they gathered in the Common Building, it is also where they held community meeting, etc.

However to elevate that building to a position of holiness, is no where documented in the Bible. To do so is error. IMHO

Most of this is easily documented, and verifiable through google searches. Here are a couple to start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_...e_Roman_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school

Have fun, I do.

[Hpwillis]

Thanks!

[Rob_0126]

Their are no christian symbols.

The fish symbol stands for dagon, the fish god.

The cross is just another babylonian symbol.

Jesus despised the shame of the cross. (Hebrews 12:2)

We are God's presentation to the world, as living epistles. (2 Corinthians 3:1-3)