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Thread: Is trump being used of God to bless america?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bezukhov View Post
    To reiterate, for those who may not be aware of it, I'm no Christian. Still, I consider myself something of a Bible scholar. Let's look at this exchange.

    Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    9) And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
    (Matthew 4: 8,9)

    Notice one thing. Jesus never contested the fact that those worldly kingdoms were Satan's to begin with. Anyone with even a cursory acquaintance with history can see the train of events from the First Century till today. Can anyone show me, from your Scriptures, where 'all the kingdoms of the world' still aren't under Satan's control?
    You see the devil is all about worldly things making people feel good.James 4:4
    Revelation 14:7
    Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    "not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    OK, 49r. Even though you also did not complete the presentation, therefore are basically disqualified from judging it, I'll hear you out. First, I want you to present factual proofs, (and not opinion or innuendo), that Wiles has prophesied falsely. That would be factual documentation in concise form with dates and source material. "False prophet" is a very serious charge, as invoking the Christ's warning that one who calls his brother "raca" (apostate) is himself in danger of hell fire. I'm not stating you're wrong, only that you best be prepared to prove any such statement or hold your peace.
    First, I did not call Rick Wiles "raca". I called him a false prophet based on the criteria found in Deu 18:22. I don't claim to know that he isn't a true believer or to know anything else about him personally.

    And second, I am not bound by your criteria as to what I need to do to justify my claim regarding Rick Wiles. The truth of that claim would be apparent to anyone who has carefully followed what he has said over that last several years, or to anyone who has taken the time to investigate him online. Detailed accounts of how he has proven himself to be a false prophet, from multiple sources, can be found by anyone who is interested in doing the research. Did you do any research on him before posting his video?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    Maybe you also need to admit clearly that you individually and our Nation are blessed by not going UNder the Obamanation permanently with Hellaree at the helm. If that is true, (and it assuredly IS, no matter how many professing Christians close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and yell No-no-no-yadayadayada-lalalala until Jesus comes, then it is also just as true that DJT was and now is God's instrument, (as in the man God used), to deliver that blessing. It is also true that DJT has indeed championed our cause in some incredibly important issues. The deafening ignorant silence of "church" leaders both in the pre-election meeting with pastors and since regarding DJT's offer to sign legislation restoring our First Article In Amendment to original intent by repealing the Johnson Amendment, is only proof of the blind leading the blind, and the extent to which the false doctrine of submission to antichrist authority has taken root. I surely hope and trust you don't consider getting a decent SCOTUS justice is some accident of fate, or that the real potential for more is. These are blessings from our merciful, loving God to US, no less than when a heathen king authorized the rebuilding of the Temple. I suppose none of you are going to be willing to admit the fact that king championed the cause of the people of God, either? What, exactly, is so hard about not limiting Almighty God in His administrations to our personal prejudices? Is this the Balaam's Ass Syndrome again?

    Your proof of your accusations against Rev. Wiles, your admissions God can and has used the likes of DJT to bless you and your Nation, and your personal public giving of thanks for these blessings?

    See brother, those who will not force themselves to think rationally and admit these things and give thanks for these blessings are not only missing the fullness of the blessing, they are in real danger of having an unthankful spirit, which engenders a bitter one, discouragement, and so forth. Help me see what is really in people's way of just being thankful for everything good that happens in life as a gift from God.
    Haven't you overlooked and totally missed the the main point that I made in my previous post? You claimed that you are not saying that Trump was any kind of spiritual leader but the video you posted in the OP seems to be saying the opposite. And I think that is the danger of your approach to Donald Trump.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    ... These are blessings from our merciful, loving God to US, no less than when a heathen king authorized the rebuilding of the Temple. I suppose none of you are going to be willing to admit the fact that king championed the cause of the people of God, either? What, exactly, is so hard about not limiting Almighty God in His administrations to our personal prejudices? Is this the Balaam's Ass Syndrome again?

    ...
    I think it is very clear that DJT is 'playing' the role of Cyrus. I think he is the 45th president? Look at Isaiah 45. It does appear that DJT is God's 'messiah', or anointed!

    Tras, you also wrote: "It may require mention, even explanation, that the Temptation of Christ and His Absolute Authority in The Atonement are in distinct and separate ages of the earth, but you are at least accurate in “only what God allows.”" I would love to read an explanation implying the two works of Christ! If you have the time and are so led. Thanks!

  4. #84
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    Hey Tras,

    I actually do have a dictionary, and refer to it quite often. It's an 1828 Webster's Edition which was designed to be a companion to the 1611 KJV Bible. Here is what it says, just to show you I DID look it up:

    Blessing
    BLESS'ING, ppr. Making happy; wishing happiness to; praising or extolling; consecrating by prayer.
    BLESS'ING,n. Benediction; a wish of happiness pronounced; a prayer imploring happiness upon another.
    1. A solemn prophetic benediction, in which happiness is desired, invoked or foretold.
    This is the blessing wherewith Moses--blessed the children of Israel. Deu 33.
    2. Any means of happiness; a gift,benefit or advantage;that which promotes temporal prosperity and welfare, or secures immortal felicity. A just and pious magistrate is a public blessing. The divine favor is the greatest blessing.
    3. Among the Jews,a present; a gift; either because it was attended with kind wishes for the welfare of the giver, or because it was the means of increasing happiness.
    Take, I pray thee, my blessing that is brought to thee. Gen 33.
    With that definition, and applying it to the Blessings and Curses in Deut. 28-9 then one can see that when God says this is a curse-....you shall have sons and daughters and they shall go into slavery....that it really is a curse, and not a blessing. I think we all agree that when our children are born, they, at that moment, become slaves to the debt that has been created in this country. The same can be done for every single line in Deut 28-9.

    So I think I can understand what is meant by a blessing.

    You should also pay special attention to the person you quoted, which was Finney:

    Charles Grandison Finney was an American Presbyterian minister and
    leader in the Second Great Awakening in the United States
    . He has been called The Father of Modern Revivalism. Finney was best known as an innovative revivalist during the period 1825–1835 in upstate New York and Manhattan,
    In the Christian world Finney is a really cool dude. He would come to town to hold a revival, and stores, and factories would close, and turn out so the people could go, and hear him preach. I think he is the one that it was commented that he carried revival in his travel bag.

    And as I have stated, the First, and SECOND Great Awakenings were blessings from God on this country. Finney living in those times, and experiencing those blessings was accurate for his day. WE are NOT in those days, and haven't been for almost 200 years. When was the last time an entire city closed it's doors so the people could hear someone preach? Hummmm, when, especially Manhattan?

    And using my example of children being born into a slave debt, above, that wasn't the way it was in the early 1800's in Finney's time, and didn't happen until it started in 1913. Wonder what Finney would have to say now, about our time.

    Moving on:

    I can’t require you to make a clear, (as opposed to a possible grudging), admission you and our Nation are blessed by not seeing Christians rounded up for genocide, our children and grandchildren gutted like fish before our eyes by their Islime henchmen or hauled off for rape and re-education, pastors crucified on the crosses above their churches like zero’s proxies did in Aleppo, etc., or that God’s direct intervention in our election to accomplish that reprieve is a miraculous blessing of mercy and grace considering our national apostasy, or that DJT most certainly is used of God for that express purpose, but; I can state with logical and biblical certainty it is patently dishonest to deny these facts, no less plainly than the man who refuses to be blessed when God miraculously stops a .30 cal round 2 feet from his face, or when God disables the bomb timer he is staring at powerlessly with 3 seconds to detonation. That, brother, is EXACTLY what a blessing is, and any attempt to redefine it is, well, completely irrational! WHERE we are receiving it is HERE, WHEN we are receiving it is STILL NOW, and HOW is self evident as it was when you posted that on P.6.
    First let me say that MY intent, and MY understanding is we are dealing with, and am assuming so is the OP, a NATIONAL BLESSING, and not an individual blessing. As I have already stated, individuals can have a personal blessing, (the .30 cal round stopping in mid air, etc) even as the nation is under a curse. So your statement above incorporates the two as a single blessing, which in my opinion, they are not. (Daniel and the 3 Israeli children were blessed in Babylon, even though their nation was under a judgment, as they were in captivity in Babylon)

    So only dealing with the first half of your statement: The same can be said for Russia, if what you describe is a blessing. In fact we could even change the heading of the OP to read "Is Putin being used of God to bless Russia" and be accurate. And they are "winning" a whole lot more than we are. Christians there aren't being gutted, or crucified for their faith either. And considering that the "church" in Russia is also in a state of apostasy, and that the lives of the Russians are much better than under the USSR.

    The same case can be made for China. Those people are really being blessed, and they are communist.

    And you keep overlooking my statement that I like what Trump as done on the world stage, and am very thankful for it. However, on our national scene, and in the work Trump has done here, it's a so-so job. And some of the deals he purposes for the near future, are flip flops on the campaign trail.

    And yet the blessings of our children not being enslaved when they are born, just increased. A blessing you say?

    Is it better under Trump than under Hillary? Probably, but at least now we don't have to break up our fallow ground. We can be at ease in Zion.

    Concerning Rick Wiles: do you really, I mean really, want someone to lay out where Rick missed it, point by point, on his prophecies? It's obvious that those are easily found, by simply using google. The only question I have is, are you going to use the Biblical standard for determining who is, and who is not, a false prophet? If you say yes you are, then I suggest you pick up a stone.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Is it better under Trump than under Hillary? Probably, ...
    I would have to answer the same question in the same way, probably. But the problem I have is with the question itself and the assumption that the solutions to the problems we have as a nation can be solved by a political solution, any political solution. If only we elect the right president, or if only we can drain the swamp, or if only we can reverse Roe v. Wade, or if only ... it goes on and on. And it is folly to think that if any or all of those things happen then our country will be on the right track spiritually.

    But you have been hitting the nail on the head. The real problems we have as a nation aren't political problems but spiritual problems and you can't solve spiritual problems with political solutions. And how often have we thought in the past that the country elected the "right" president only to find out later that we had been deceived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er
    I would have to answer the same question in the same way, probably. But the problem I have is with the question itself and the assumption that the solutions to the problems we have as a nation can be solved by a political solution, any political solution. If only we elect the right president, or if only we can drain the swamp, or if only we can reverse Roe v. Wade, or if only ... it goes on and on. And it is folly to think that if any or all of those things happen then our country will be on the right track spiritually.

    But you have been hitting the nail on the head. The real problems we have as a nation aren't political problems but spiritual problems and you can't solve spiritual problems with political solutions. And how often have we thought in the past that the country elected the "right" president only to find out later that we had been deceived.
    Thanks, Forty9er. I agree, completely. No nation can achieve spiritual greatness (blessings) by using worldly means (politics).
    Last edited by Sherree; 02-18-2018 at 11:14 AM.

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    Thanks 9er,

    My ....deal isn't to come off as being someone who has the market cornered on being right. What I want to do is inject some realism into the conversation.

    Rick Wiles is a false prophet because his prophecies didn't hit the mark. Realism.

    My mother toted her "healing" even as she used rescue inhalers and died of COPD and wouldn't see a doctor unless she couldn't get her breath, and was sent to the ER. I told her she wasn't healed. Realism.

    And is the same with my questions about the blessings. Are we really, then how so, where is the reality of those blessings.

    If anyone says the standard of measurement for a blessing is not being gutted, and crucified, then the same thing can be said for Russia, and China.

    If we paint stuff with to wide a brush everything/everyone is right, if we paint to narrow a strip, no one will be right, and fit the standard. I'm not trying to say Trump is wrong in everything, but he's not right in everything either. I hope that is realism. And to me what matters most is our perspective/view of that. On one side of that Trump will be put on a pedestal, when he doesn't belong there, on the other side he will never be able to do anything that benefits this country.

    Politics is politics, period. Spiritual Awakenings, are Spiritual Awakenings, something that is totally different. If America had a Third Great Awakening, then yeah Roe v Wade would be reversed among other things. Until that happens the politicians will say it is the law of the land. Notice the difference.

    Anyway thanks again, and I must say you've been hitting the nail just fine.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

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    Point taken on the danger you "perceive" in my approach, 49r. I didn't get that at all from the video, I just agreed the man is indeed a "blessing" from God, nationally and individually. I think perhaps most of those who got that "great spiritual leader/ Moses" nonsense just weren't listening carefully, and were interpreting words out of context to suit their prejudice, but then, I wasn't looking for that whatever.

    You use Deut. 18 to indict Rev. Wiles, and the penalty for the offense you charge him with is death by stoning. It's hard not to translate that to "raca" under the New Covenant, so I don't get the part where he might otherwise be a Christian. The NT version is "ravening wolves", "clouds without water", "those who creep unawares into houses and lead silly women astray", and worse. As for on-line re
    "They who have put out the people's eyes reproach them of their blindness."
    John Milton, 1642

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    Point taken on the danger you "perceive" in my approach, 49r. I didn't get that at all from the video, I just agreed the man is indeed a "blessing" from God, nationally and individually.
    Politically speaking, I was glad to see him win over the evil alternative, but even in that realm I think the jury is still out. Isn't it possible, given the great divide in this country, that there could be an overt coup attempt and regardless of whether or not it is successful, it could in the end result in nationwide anarchy or even civil war? How would that be a blessing? We were living in very dangerous times before he was elected but I believe the current danger is even worse.

    But spiritually speaking, I am not just reluctant but very adverse to seeing him at all as a Cyrus or as "God's man" for our country, let alone as any kind of spiritual leader. But that doesn't preclude God from using him to accomplish His will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    I think perhaps most of those who got that "great spiritual leader/ Moses" nonsense just weren't listening carefully, and were interpreting words out of context to suit their prejudice, but then, I wasn't looking for that whatever.
    I didn't think you were advocating that view of him but I am very discouraged from the video which indicates that there may be many others who do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    You use Deut. 18 to indict Rev. Wiles, and the penalty for the offense you charge him with is death by stoning.
    That would be true if we were under the Law and living in a God-ordained theocratic nation. But neither of those conditions is true today. Even though we are not under the Law Deu 18:22 still gives a valid definition of a false prophet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasael Adnepos View Post
    It's hard not to translate that to "raca" under the New Covenant, so I don't get the part where he might otherwise be a Christian.
    God didn't give me the ability to see any other person's heart so I am reluctant to make any claim about their salvation. Is it not possible that a Christian could be deceived into believing that God had given him a prophetic vision when He really hadn't?

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    Oops, operator error. I reckon it is possible, 49r, if not likely, and, in a leader particularly, would require public acknowledgement and repentance, if not flat stepping down and demoting to usher...
    As for on-line research, like the present witch-hunt on DJT, maybe? Biblically, the one making accusation is personally responsible.
    On second thought, Cary and 49r, I would sincerely appreciate if you don’t smear Rev. Wiles further on this particular thread. See, IF you only carry a false report, or slander you mistakenly believe to be verified, you are still culpable as a backbiter and false accuser, (doing the devil’s work), and IF your distaste for any particular brother is rooted in some difference of opinion on non-essential doctrine, (as opposed to rank heresy or blatant, verifiable false prophecy with no contingencies [such as r
    "They who have put out the people's eyes reproach them of their blindness."
    John Milton, 1642

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