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Thread: Has the Ark been found?

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    Default Has the Ark been found?

    As contained in the article many have searched, and have claimed to have found it. This is another claim. It is interesting though.

    Readers of the Old Testament are familiar with the Ark of the Covenant, the sacred golden chest carried by the Israelites during their wanderings in the desert and finally placed in the temple built by King Solomon. The 1981 adventure/fantasy film Raiders of the Lost Ark by Steven Spielberg and George Lucas introduced a Hollywood version of the Ark to a much larger global audience outside the Jewish and Christian traditions. That movie ends with the Ark disappearing in a large crate, along with thousands of other similar crates, into a huge U.S. government warehouse.


    The Ark did indeed disappear, but not following World War II, as Hollywood portrayed, and not into a top-secret warehouse. There is much dispute among scholars and researchers about when, and by whom, it was removed from the Temple. Some believe it was taken to Babylon, following the Jewish-Babylonian War, which culminated in 586 B.C. with Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar II plundering and destroying Jerusalem, slaying most of the Israelites, and taking most of the survivors into captivity. Others hold that the Ark is in Aksum, Ethiopia, or that it is buried in a tunnel under the Temple, or that it is in a cave beneath Golgotha (also known as Calvary), the hill on which Jesus Christ was crucified. At any rate, it has been “missing” for well over two millennia, its location known only to God.


    Jim Barfield believes it is in Qumran, the area of the Judean Desert where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. In 1952, a fragile scroll made of copper was discovered in a cave above the Dead Sea at Qumran. The Copper Scroll is materially unique in that it was written on thin, hammered copper, rather than the less-durable papyrus or parchment, which were the materials used for all of the other scrolls. Jim Barfield, founder and director of
    The Copper Scroll Project
    , believes he has found in the enigmatic Copper Scroll the key to the location of the cave where the Ark of the Covenant is hidden, along with the Tabernacle in the Wilderness and the Altar of Incense. The Copper Scroll, he believes, also shows the locations of 56 additional sites where vast hoards of sacred treasures are buried — including tons of Temple items made of gold and silver from the Temple of Solomon.

    The clues provided in the Copper Scroll, Barfield says, are reinforced by the ancient account of the prophet Jeremiah (Jeremias) in the Second Book of Maccabees, which recounts that Jeremiah removed the Temple treasures from Jerusalem before the city fell to Nebuchadnezzar. The account in II Maccabees reads:


    You shall also find it set down in the dispositions made by the prophet Jeremias, that he bade the exiles rescue the sacred fire, in the manner aforesaid. Strict charge he gave them, the Lord’s commandments they should keep ever in mind, nor let false gods, all gold and silver and fine array, steal away their hearts; with much else to confirm them in their regard for the law. And here, in this same document, the story was told, how a divine oracle came to Jeremias, and he must needs go out, with tabernacle and ark to bear him company, to the very mountain Moses climbed long ago, when he had sight of God’s domain. A cave Jeremias found there, in which he set down tabernacle and ark and incense-altar, and stopped up the entrance behind him. There were some that followed; no time they lost in coming up to mark the spot, but find it they could not. He, when they told him of it, rebuked their eagerness; Nay, said he, the place must remain ever unknown, till the day when God brings his people together once more, and is reconciled; then, divinely, the secret shall be made manifest. Then once again the Lord’s majesty shall be seen, and the cloud that enshrines it; the same vision that was granted to Moses, and to Solomon when he prayed that the great God would have his temple on earth; Solomon, the master of wisdom, that in his wisdom offered sacrifice to hallow the temple he had made.


    Utilizing the copper scroll, the Book of Maccabees, and other ancient sources, Barfield has created a map of Qumran depicting where he believes the 57 Temple treasure sites are. In 2009, he was able to put his theories from the copper scroll to the test. With the help of a member of the Israeli Knesset, he and his team were allowed to conduct a survey of four of the sites utilizing advanced scanning detector technology that allowed them to see 50 feet below the surface of the ground. According to Barfield, their detector showed “massive amounts” of nonferrous metal objects in precisely those locations. This, he says, is an exciting confirmation to him that they are on the right track. He is confident that the objects depicted by the detector are indeed the much-sought-after Temple treasures. Most exciting of all, he says, were the detector readings for the cave location where he believes the greatest treasures, including the Ark of the Covenant, are hidden. That’s where the detector gave off the biggest readings for nonferrous metals, indicating to him they had found the Ark and the other most important gold and silver Temple objects.


    Jim Barfield has been to Israel 15 times in the past 11 years in efforts to advance the Copper Scroll Project’s mission, which he says is to “Help the Nation of Israel recover the items of the Copper Scroll.”


    Barfield was not surprised that his initial approaches to Israeli authorities and archeologists were met with skepticism. Besides being an outsider, without the archeological credentials and experience of other noted authorities in this field, there are tremendous political sensitivities and rivalries involved that complicate any excavation effort. “The political and religious ramifications of this are huge,” he told The New American in a recent telephone interview. “The Palestinians certainly don’t want anything like this that would confirm Israel’s historical claim” to the area.


    In addition to the Palestinians, there are also influential Israelis who are opposed to the project. Some are opposed to it because they fear a discovery of this sort would lead to increased Arab-Israeli tensions and an increase of attacks by the Palestinians against Israelis. Other Jews, says Barfield, particularly the wealthier, non-religious classes, see it as a threat because they fear it would lead to greater religious fervor among the Jews and a clamor to build a third temple, which they oppose.


    Our video interview with Barfield embedded above was conducted in 2016. However, because of political instability in Israel at the time and security concerns, he asked us not to post it at that time. Since then, he says, the Copper Scroll Project has made enormous strides. “On our last visit to Israel — in September last year — we had a very good meeting with a top Israeli archeologist and a high official in the Israeli government,” he told The New American. The official from the Israeli government, when presented with all of Barfield's evidence, became very interested and supportive.


    Jim Barfield has worked on the Copper Scroll Project for more than a decade. He has experienced many delays, setbacks, and roadblocks, as well as more than his fair share of detractors. He freely admits to getting impatient and discouraged at times. However, he firmly believes that, ultimately, God is in control of world events, and he intends to remain faithful to what he believes is God’s calling for him in this historic effort. The Ark of the Covenant will be revealed “in God’s good time,” he says. “It might not be Jim Barfield whom He uses to reveal it, but that’s not what’s important — I’m not important. What’s important is that I faithfully carry out His will for me, as I understand it.”


    We, at The New American, take no position on the validity or accuracy of the findings and claims of Jim Barfield and the Copper Scroll Project. Whether or not he has truly discovered the Ark of the Covenant will likely only be revealed by time — and a shovel. However, we were intrigued enough with the subject to do this interview and report. We believe our readers may find it intriguing, if not fascinating, especially in light of the recent developments concerning President Trump’s focus on Jerusalem.


    https://www.thenewamerican.com/cultu...f-the-covenant

    The article mentions an embedded video, go to link to watch, about 6 minutes.
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    This topic has always interested me and after many years of reading stories about this I'm on the side that Noah and his family probably would have dismantled at least most of the ark for consumption and construction. I don't think there would have been many trees left shortly after the flood (could be wrong) so it would make sense for them to use the ark for that purpose. Perhaps they tore it down to the foundation? I dunno, interesting topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Look4Truth View Post
    This topic has always interested me and after many years of reading stories about this I'm on the side that Noah and his family probably would have dismantled at least most of the ark for consumption and construction. I don't think there would have been many trees left shortly after the flood (could be wrong) so it would make sense for them to use the ark for that purpose. Perhaps they tore it down to the foundation? I dunno, interesting topic.
    Wrong Ark.
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

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    Personally, I think it is out of men's reach Rev 11:19 And the Dwelling Place of Elohim was opened in the heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His Dwelling Place. And there came to be lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Look4Truth View Post
    This topic has always interested me and after many years of reading stories about this I'm on the side that Noah and his family probably would have dismantled at least most of the ark for consumption and construction. I don't think there would have been many trees left shortly after the flood (could be wrong) so it would make sense for them to use the ark for that purpose. Perhaps they tore it down to the foundation? I dunno, interesting topic.
    Wrong Ark but hey, no problem:



    About 17 minutes.
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    Meh, my bad, just glanced. I don't follow these stories much anymore, too much deception out there. Even if they did find either of those, people still wouldn't believe, at least most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Wrong Ark but hey, no problem:



    About 17 minutes.
    Cary, do you think it's a good or bad thing if they find either ark? The way I see it is, there will be a 'Snopes' or three out there ready to disprove it's authenticity and give non-believers more ammo not to believe. And even if it were to be real, who's going to prove it? What if it turns out to be a hoax or replica?

    I dunno, I think it might be a better thing if these are never found. It would be great for believers to see them but I'm not so sure it would be a good thing for non-believers, especially with the amount of deception out there now. YMMV.
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    I have set the LORD always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. ~ Psalm 16:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Look4Truth View Post
    Cary, do you think it's a good or bad thing if they find either ark? The way I see it is, there will be a 'Snopes' or three out there ready to disprove it's authenticity and give non-believers more ammo not to believe. And even if it were to be real, who's going to prove it? What if it turns out to be a hoax or replica?

    I dunno, I think it might be a better thing if these are never found. It would be great for believers to see them but I'm not so sure it would be a good thing for non-believers, especially with the amount of deception out there now. YMMV.
    Different for different individuals.

    For Christians, neither would have an effect. I don't think. Much like the 3rd Temple and restored sacrifices. We already believe. Finding either Ark wouldn't make me believe more. However, the "I told you so", factor would be cool. LOL.

    For the Jew, and the Anti-Christ, finding the Ark of the Covenant, would be huge, as would rebuilding the Temple. Seems it would give more validity to the Anti-Christ's claim. And more validity to the AOD, as it did the first time. Just speculating on my part. I would also make a note that the things on earth, the Ark of the Covenant, the Temple, the Cherubim figures, were all shadows of what was in heaven, and Moses was even instructed to make sure he represented the things in heaven, on earth, correctly.

    For the unbeliever today not much, but at the appearance of the AC, and maybe just before, concerning The Apostasy, False Prophet, Image of the Beast, etc... those items may play a bigger confirmation role to converting to the world wide religion of the AC. You know if I tell you I'm a Judge, you might laugh, but if I show up in robs, and a wooden hammer, you might change your mind.

    I would just add a couple of thoughts about Noah's Ark. I don't think they would of tore it apart to build, say a house. At coming out of the Ark, food would be No. 1 on the list of items needed and fast. Not just for Noah and his family but the domestic animals. So I think they may have used like chicken coops for making fires etc. I think they would of used tents, so they could be mobile, and get to a lower elevation soon, so the animals would have pasture to graze on. Like in valleys, which would be a good place to find drift wood. Granted many other things would of been needed, like wagons to carry hay, and edibles etc. And give a couple of weeks for the grass to grow etc.... So the bulk of the interior could of been reclaimed, but I think the hull, would of remained intact. However, some 6000 years later, or so (4500) it's not likely any remains. Wooden houses around here get reclaimed by the woods in 50-100 years. Over growth, termites, rats, snakes, birds, bees, freezing, heating, rot, etc.

    Even though it was covered with pitch inside and out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Different for different individuals.

    For Christians, neither would have an effect. I don't think. Much like the 3rd Temple and restored sacrifices. We already believe. Finding either Ark wouldn't make me believe more. However, the "I told you so", factor would be cool. LOL.

    For the Jew, and the Anti-Christ, finding the Ark of the Covenant, would be huge, as would rebuilding the Temple. Seems it would give more validity to the Anti-Christ's claim. And more validity to the AOD, as it did the first time. Just speculating on my part. I would also make a note that the things on earth, the Ark of the Covenant, the Temple, the Cherubim figures, were all shadows of what was in heaven, and Moses was even instructed to make sure he represented the things in heaven, on earth, correctly.

    For the unbeliever today not much, but at the appearance of the AC, and maybe just before, concerning The Apostasy, False Prophet, Image of the Beast, etc... those items may play a bigger confirmation role to converting to the world wide religion of the AC. You know if I tell you I'm a Judge, you might laugh, but if I show up in robs, and a wooden hammer, you might change your mind.

    I would just add a couple of thoughts about Noah's Ark. I don't think they would of tore it apart to build, say a house. At coming out of the Ark, food would be No. 1 on the list of items needed and fast. Not just for Noah and his family but the domestic animals. So I think they may have used like chicken coops for making fires etc. I think they would of used tents, so they could be mobile, and get to a lower elevation soon, so the animals would have pasture to graze on. Like in valleys, which would be a good place to find drift wood. Granted many other things would of been needed, like wagons to carry hay, and edibles etc. And give a couple of weeks for the grass to grow etc.... So the bulk of the interior could of been reclaimed, but I think the hull, would of remained intact. However, some 6000 years later, or so (4500) it's not likely any remains. Wooden houses around here get reclaimed by the woods in 50-100 years. Over growth, termites, rats, snakes, birds, bees, freezing, heating, rot, etc.

    Even though it was covered with pitch inside and out.
    Well, that's possible of course. I'm sure they stayed in the ark for awhile for shelter etc. but eventually they'd want to start spreading out and building new structures. I guess it would depend on on how fast trees grew shortly after the flood and how much dead wood they could use. They would have needed firewood for sure so that had to come somewhere. It could go different ways, it's really not important, just interesting.

    I guess what concerns me is that people get so caught up in signs and wonders that they can be easily misled, especially in the times we're in and coming soon. The minions of this world are going to do anything and everything to discredit Jesus Christ and 'debunking' things like this would be high on their list.

    Meh, it's all just interesting discussion for Christians, doesn't sway our faith either way.

    I hope that we'll be able to 'see' or view events of the past when we get there. I think it would be amazing to see history unfold, secrets told, treasure buried etc.
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    Yeah we're cool. And I know for my part it's all speculation, and we're just talking.

    I sort of base part of my speculation on 2 things. 1) the time between the Ark landing on Ararat, and the building of the Tower of Babel, a little over a hundred years 2) the distance between those 2 things. In Camel travel, it would take more, or less a year to travel that distance. And there is no telling where they meandered around, how long they camped in one area, set up a base camp, and did day hikes scoping out the land, going on scavenging runs. (Yo dude, this can of beans is only a year and half old, should be good.) etc. Mama Noah sleeping in late, Noah taking naps, in the afternoon.

    Saw a movie one time where some American Indians were on the move, and a Mama Indian moved off the trail squatted, and squirted out a baby, while the brave kept watch. Picked the baby up and moved on. For Sherree it was GIVE ME THE DRUGS. After a couple of those I was, GIVE HER THE DRUGS. Don't know how Noah and his family did it, but I'm sure there was birthing going on as well. As well as all the normal daily duties, and taking care of young'uns (I was always like, "SHEEERRRRREEEEE")

    The Copper Scroll is very interesting. Joel Rosenburg has a book out, some years ago called "The Copper Scroll". It's fictional, but is based in fact. The scroll was discovered in 1952, in the Qumran caves. The Copper Scroll Project, is an actual work. Even though the scroll is copper instead of Papyri, it's still a delicate project to unroll, and cipher.

    The
    Copper Scroll
    (
    3Q15
    ) is one of the
    Dead Sea Scrolls
    found in Cave 3 near Khirbet
    Qumran
    , but differs significantly from the others. Whereas the other scrolls are written on
    parchment
    or
    papyrus
    , this scroll is written on
    metal
    :
    copper
    mixed with about 1 percent
    tin
    . Unlike the others, it is not a
    literary
    work, but a list of locations at which various items of
    gold
    and
    silver
    are buried or hidden. It differs from the other scrolls in its Hebrew (closer to the language of the
    Mishnah
    than to the literary Hebrew of the other scrolls, though
    4QMMT
    shares some language characteristics), its orthography,
    palaeography
    (forms of letters) and date (c. 50–100 CE, possibly overlapping the latest of the other Qumran manuscripts).
    [1]


    While most of the Dead Sea Scrolls were found by Bedouins, the Copper Scroll was discovered by an archaeologist.[5] The scroll, on two rolls of copper, was found on March 14, 1952[6] at the back of Cave 3 at Qumran. It was the last of 15 scrolls discovered in the cave, and is thus referred to as 3Q15.[7] The corroded metal could not be unrolled by conventional means and so the Jordanian government sent it to Manchester University's College of Technology in England on the recommendation of English archaeologist and Dead Sea Scrolls scholar John Marco Allegro for it to be cut into sections, allowing the text to be read. He arranged for the university's Professor H. Wright Baker to cut the sheets into 23 strips in 1955 and 1956.[8] It then became clear that the rolls were part of the same document. Allegro, who had supervised the opening of the scroll, transcribed its contents immediately.The first editor assigned for the transcribed text was Józef Milik. He initially believed that the scroll was a product of the Essenes but noted that it was likely not an official work of theirs. At first he believed that it was not an actual historical account; he believed it was that of folklore. Later however, Milik's view changed. Since there was no indication that the scroll was a product of the Essenes from the Qumran community, he changed his identification of the scroll. He now believes that the scroll was separate from the community, although it was found at Qumran in Cave 3, it was found further back in the cave, away from the other scrolls. As a result, he suggested the Copper Scroll was a separate deposit, separated by a "lapse in time."[6]Although the text was assigned to Milik, in 1957 the Jordanian Director of Antiquities approached Allegro to publish the text. After a second approach by a new director of Jordanian Antiquities,[9] Allegro, who had waited for signs of Milik of moving to publish, took up the second request and published an edition with translation and hand-drawn transcriptions from the original copper segments in 1960. Milik published his official edition in 1962, also with hand-drawn transcriptions, though the accompanying black-and-white photographs were "virtually illegible".[10] The scroll was re-photographed in 1988 with greater precision.[11] From 1994 to 1996 extensive conservation efforts by Electricité de France (EDF) included evaluation of corrosion, photography, x-rays, cleaning, making a facsimile and a drawing of the letters. Emile Puech's edition had the benefit of these results.[12]Scholarly estimates of the probable date range of The Copper Scroll vary. F.M. Cross proposed the period of 25-75 CE on paleographical grounds, while W.F. Albright suggested 70-135 CE[13] and Manfred Lehmann put forward a similar date range, arguing that the treasure was principally the money accumulated between the First Jewish–Roman War and the Bar Kokhba revolt, while the temple lay in ruins. P. Kyle McCarter Jr., Albert M. Wolters, David Wilmot and Judah Lefkovits all agree that the scroll originated around 70 CE.[6] Whereas Emile Puech argued that the deposit of the Copper Scroll behind 40 jars could not have been placed after the jars, so the scroll "predates 68 CE."[14]Józef Milik proposed that the scroll was written around 100 CE, nearly a "generation after the destruction of Jerusalem."[6] If Milik's dating of the scroll is correct, it would mean that the scroll did not come from the Qumran community because his dating puts the scroll "well after the Qumran settlement was destroyed."[15]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Scroll

    One could spend/kill a good afternoon checking out all the stuff with this scroll.

    Several people are looking for the Ark of the Covenant, all in different places. So far, at least in public knowledge, it has not been found. Just losing that thing is weird by itself. But hey, the Israelites lost ........the Torah (?) for some 500 years too. I think it was during David's reign that they found it.

    But if they ever find it, it will change things on the ground in Israel. War, Temple, boundaries, moving from secular to religious Jews, lots could change.
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