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Thread: Bethel: Con't You Yet See That The Seven Last Times Were Over long, Long Ago?

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    Default Bethel: Con't You Yet See That The Seven Last Times Were Over long, Long Ago?

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    News flash: RE: Dan 9:24-27.… The last seven ‘times’ concluded on the day of Pentecost after the Crucifixion, nearly 2000 years ago. Gods personal flesh mission to Israel began with the Baptism by John, and endured from then, a total of 434 days, precisely as foretold by Daniel.

    Yet, Bethel did not get the message, as per usual. They continue wanting their abominable sacrifices, pleading for a third ’temple’ and looking for their red heifer. When the blood of Christ has made it ’desolate’ , listen up. Bethel IS DESOLATE, and will so remain -- FOREVER. Even to the end, Bethel will not be able to discern between that Israel, that piece of dirt so named by the beast, and Israel the nation, that He favors for His own.

    He gave his nation Israel a new name to distinguish them from Bethel.


    Isa 62:2
    2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (KJV)

    CHRISTian. A name neither of gender, race, nor color.

    None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Isa 61:1-2
    1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
    2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; (KJV)

    Luke 4:17-21
    17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
    21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)

    Notice that Christ says "acceptable year", not acceptable 3 1/2 years.

    The point made is obvious that if Bethel's idea of 3 1/2 years ministry is correct there is error in the scriptures concerning both prophecy and Christs fulfillment of being the perfect sacrifice, but of course, The WORD proves that He was.

    1 Cor 5:7
    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: (KJV)

    Heb 10:4-10
    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)

    Give up your fables, Bethel.

    Now, concerning this sacrifice, the Law is specific on the Lamb to be used for sacrifice on the Passover:

    Exod 12:5
    5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: (KJV)

    At the baptism by John, recall that Christ was anointed as the Lamb by God Himself.

    John 1:29
    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (KJV)

    John 1:36
    36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! (KJV)

    Thus, as the Lamb must be a MALE of the FIRST year, ie a 'yearling'. Christ could not be 3 years a lamb and still be the perfect sacrifice according to the law, which Christ fulfilled.
    A 3 year ministry would not fulfill it.

    know and believe these words..
    Matt 5:17-18
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.(KJV)

    Finally, to this regard of fulfilling the law, we find written Deu chapter 16, where 3 feasts were given by God to fulfill the Law: These are Passover, feast of weeks (or Pentecost) and Feast of Tabernacles.

    Don’t you find it rather strange that only ONE feast of Tabernacles and ONE feast of Weeks is mentioned in John? Jesus surely would not have missed a required feast, else the Law would have been broken with this action too.

    Regarding this, Note that He kept the Passover mentions of John 2:13 and 13:1, but with the one mentioned in John 6, notice He DID NOT keep it. This is because it was the passover of the second month. He went out and fed the folks instead.

    Num 9:10-11
    10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.
    11 The fourteenth day of the SECOND month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. (KJV)

    Now, we know He was sacrificed on a the true Passover of the FIRST month, so back up a year and you will find the one of John 2. One year.

    Even if Bethel falsely claims that John 6 was a yearly passover, then we still only get 2 years, not 3, but we are then forced to say Christ did not fulfill the law as written.

    Knowledge of this opens lots of scripture. The 62 weeks (434 days) of Daniel is from His Baptism until his Crucifixion on the second following Passover.

    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (KJV)

    (Notice that these 62 MUST BE weeks of days, for Christ surely was not on earth for 62 weeks of years!!)

    We can prove this 434 day time period from the Gospels, and a little help from knowing the Jew's feasts.

    There is only one year (360) days between the two Passovers of Jn. (ch 2 and the one in ch 11). To this we add the forty days in the wilderness after His baptism, and the 3 days between Jn 1:32 and Jn 2:1, and the "not many days" of Jn 2:12.

    Lets start at the Passover at the termination of the ministry, which all know. The day prior is the Passover preparation day (John 19:14, 31, 42). Lets count backward from there, and consider the 62 week time as specified in Daniel 9:26. After all Jesus has fulfilled the prophets up until now. So, 62 weeks are 7x62 or 434 days.

    There are 360 days between Passovers, leaving 74 days, 434-360=74. Since the Passover preparation day is always Nisan 14, two (30 day months) and 14 days ealier would bring us back to the first day of the month Sebat. Is the first of Sebat significant? Paul says in 1 Cor 10:1-4:
    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ (KJV)

    We find, written for our edification:

    Deut 1:3
    3 And it came to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first day of the month, that Moses spake unto the children of Israel, according unto all that the LORD had given him in commandment unto them; (KJV)

    Sebat is the eleventh month:
    Zech 1:7
    7 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying, (KJV)

    Deu 1:3 is an acceptable type, when taken with Dan 9:26 and the Gospel records, because Moses was a type of Christ to Israel, and Moses introduced the first Passover.

    This adds great meaning to the Words Christ quoted at the beginning. This is indeed the "acceptable year" of the Lord. Not, mind you, the acceptable "3 and a half years" as Bethel says. (See Lk 4:19)

    Well, Bethel, coincidence or not, it is exactly 74 days from 1 Sebat to Nisan 14, and of course 360 days until the next Nisan 14. Thus, it is exactly 434 days, or the 62 weeks as prophesied in Dan 9:26 from the first day of Sebat, to the second following Passover preparation day, Nisan 14.

    Now that one can suspicion that the full 70 weeks (of days) have been fulfilled, consider this. The 70 weeks (of days--Dan 9:25) were allotted to all. To both the Elect and to the Jews. Christ came to them (both) for 62 weeks, (434 days) as foretold in Dan 9, and He was loved by the Elect but crucified by Bethel on the preparation day of Passover. Passover lasts for 1 week. (Ex 12:15). Now, 434 + 7 = 441 days. Pentecost (Acts 2, when the Holy Spirit was poured out) begins at sunset at the end of 7 weeks from passover. (49 days after Passover-see Lev 23: 5-16). It was immediately on Pentecost day, that Peter and John announced (Acts 3,4 and 5) to Judah that they had rejected their Messiah. NOW, 441+49 =490 days, or 70 LITERAL "weeks" of days.

    The (Yes ALREADY fulfilled) prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 must be addressed. The subjects of these 3 verses are different. The times are given in 'sevens' and the word used there is 'shabuas'.

    All reading these verses should realize that the objects of verse 24 can never be satisfied by anything other than Christ. There is no 'city', boogerbear, or animal sacrifice that can fulfill them.

    Since these are fulfilled in Christ, they must be 'sevens' of days, or literal weeks. There are 490 days here, which were shown in the above.

    The 69 weeks of Dan 9:25 are weeks of years, and were shown fulfilled in Ezra (49 years) and the remaining years until the Baptism (advent) of Messiah, Jesus.

    Finally in Dan 9:26, the 62 weeks until the cutting off (crucifixion) of Jesus are weeks of days (434 total) as was shown above.

    Now, it is sure that there is no final 7 years that is unfulfilled, for there never was. The problem is that Bethel has dreamed up fairy tales to support other untruths, simply because they could not hear the recorded words of the Lord that were clearly spoken. Like -7 last years, Rupture, and so, so many more. And as Jesus has left the shepherds of Bethel a special message.…

    Matt 23:
    13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
    15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
    17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
    18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
    19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
    21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
    22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
    23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
    25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
    26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
    27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. (KJV)

    And to Bethel’s captive sheep, he says…

    IKing 18:21
    21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. (KJV)

    Bethel, Why look Ye for another? Why yearn for a red cow and a stone temple, and for Satan to sit there? Why fear a chip and look to the skies in fear?

    When He uttered His last words from the Cross….”It is Finished”, He actually meant them. As Paul wrote to us,

    Phil 3:14-21
    14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
    15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
    16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
    17 Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you.
    18 For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
    19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
    20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
    21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. (NIV)

    For it is You who are the Temple of God.

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    So, where does that leave “us”, as pertains to new world orders, crumbling societies, earth magnetism issues and the writing on the wall ?

    No one is coming to save “us” from ourselves, after all ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post
    So, where does that leave “us”, as pertains to new world orders, crumbling societies, earth magnetism issues and the writing on the wall ?

    No one is coming to save “us” from ourselves, after all ?

    When I was young and foolish, I crushed my right leg and lower body in a cycle mishap. After 4 days of remorse and pain in the hospital, I was handed a pair of crutches and kicked out.

    Crutches do not come with an instruction manual. Their comfort, padding, and length can be varied for an individual's comfort -- but there is no manual. Lots of people offered me advice.
    Some of the advise was good, but the majority was not applicable to me, personally. I tried lots of things to make the crutches more comfortable to me personally.

    I learned the first lesson that one has to overcome the fact that you cannot walk without them, but I knew I would heal and recover. If one keeps stumbling and trying, eventually you learn to move around 'good enough' with their aid. The best thought, though, is that you have faith that eventually ... you will be able lay them aside for keeps -- when you truly learn to walk for the second time in your life.
    Last edited by watchman; 07-25-2019 at 10:13 AM.

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    So yes, the 7 last years fantasy of Bethel is been shown to have been fulfilled
    long ago.
    But now what? What of the evil time to come?

    Well, it has been shortened from 7 years to 45 days. Read:

    Dan 12:11-13
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. (KJV)

    Matt 24:22
    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (KJV)

    Mark 13:20
    20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. (KJV)

    Indeed he has shortened the days of trial… to 45 days…(1335-1290). Well, are these 45 made know to us? Yes indeed. Consider: He tells us many places that as they have done to me they will do to you. So:

    Attacks by Satan in the ’wilderness’ were endured for what? == 40 days. plus

    The witnesses killed in Rev 11, lie dead for 3 ½ days == thus 43 ½ days total, plus

    After their resurrection, The day of the Lord’s Wrath in Rev 11 accounts for one day…

    So we have the total of 44 ½ days. And then dear ones, since the day begins at sunset, that 45th day is when our rejoicing will forever be fulfilled.

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    Curious, why do you keep referring to "Bethel".
    I always understood that was Jacob's term for 'heaven', as the "House of God". Yet you seem to have it as a label for the Catholic (universal) church.
    A warrior lives by acting, not by thinking about acting, nor by thinking about what he will think when he has finished acting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HouseWolf View Post
    Curious, why do you keep referring to "Bethel".
    I always understood that was Jacob's term for 'heaven', as the "House of God". Yet you seem to have it as a label for the Catholic (universal) church.
    Well, I shall try: The point I wish to make is that “the house of god” is not the same as God’s House”. Try this.
    Viz:
    Gen 28:19
    19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first. (KJV)

    Man says that AHA.. the place, that piece of dirt, is thus the house of God. But, only because they do not keep reading. Bethel is indeed the house of god, BUT IT IS NOT GOD’S House. Big difference.
    See
    Gen 28:22
    And THIS STONE, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee. (KJV)

    God’s house is thus not a piece of dirt, but it is a stone pillar, as Jacob ACTUALLY said. Thus the pillar is the prototype of a house not made with man’s hands

    On the other hand, the PLACE Bethel, the piece of dirt, is in the land of the Canaanites, to which universal religion still bows and applies the name Bethel. It is their Bethel, but it is the house of their gods, not Israel’s. Bethel still is to this day...the universal house.

    To wit. Gen 35:6
    6 So Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel, he and all the people that were with him. (KJV) ie, Canaanite gods, like Dagon, etc.

    No, No. Indeed Israel did not leave the pillar, God‘s House. They took it with them.
    This very stone, Jacob’s pillar, has in fact followed the children of Israel to this very day.

    1 Cor 10:1-4
    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (KJV)

    The rock fed them, provided water for them that they never thirst.
    The rock was the condemnation of Moses when he struck it twice.

    And it gives more meaning to Christ’s Words… ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone”, and “this stone falling on him will grind him to powder”

    Jacob’s pillar was the coronation stone for all the Kings of Israel. See: 2Ki 11
    14 And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner was, and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason. (KJV)

    So, in retrospect, Bethel is indeed left to them desolate, as is written. So I think it is an apt term for a universal church of many gods and statues.

    The Word says thou shall not make an image of or any semblance of God... But of course they have so filed the facets of the keys to the kingdom that they stole, they don't mention that part. The Lord says plainly "Call no man Father on this earth" Yet they proudly call a man their 'father' who wears the open mouthed, two horned fish hat of Dagon while carrying a pole proudly showing their war 'trophy' of the crucified Christ. Yep Bethel indeed. Plain and simple. But not my 'El'.

    Nevertheless, Israel, “God’s House” has the Temple of God, a temple not made with hands.

    Actually, there’s more. A great deal more. One may do a little web search on Jeremiah planting the tops of the cedars in the Isles. Also the “stone of destiny”, the “stone of scone”, “Jacob’s Pillar” and of course the 400 pound stone with iron rings worn from being carried that is below the coronation seat of British royalty in Westminster abbey to this day.

    If you have never researched them, it makes for an interesting read.

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    Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)
    I see that many of you are still doubtful. Particularly those of you who cling to the fables of Bethel as taught by your pastors from his Scofield ‘study bible’ notes. In particular, you cling to your rUpture, and your ‘last seven years’ fable. This in spite of the fulfillment of the ENTIRE 70 weeks as was shown in the initial part of this thread. ALL of them. Yet, you still want another week, when ( 9:24) specifically said there were only 70..

    So ok. You look for a ‘last seven years’ because of the ’antichrist’ which your ’pastors’ say has to happen. The hard truth is that your ‘antichrist‘ has already come, many times, and will continue to come. Read the Words of Christ about ’false christs’, and also the epistles of John. If you read Rev 11, you will see that it is the ‘beast’ who kills the witnesses for Christ.
    The ’beast’ is mankind. We already found that out in two posts here on these very boards.
    1) http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...light=beast%2C

    2) http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...The-Second-One

    Yet, You point at---
    Dan 9:27

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)

    Your ‘pastors’ say “see--That’s ‘antichrist’ --see? Well, it ain’t.. not by a long shot.
    The ‘He’ is JESUS.. Read 9:27 again, slowly and ask yourself…

    1) Does satan want to CONFIRM any Covenant? What ‘Covenant does satan have that he wants to CONFIRM?

    God on the other hand, does have a covenant that we all know, and it was that He died for your sins. Did He confirm it? Long ago? Yes indeed.

    2) In the ‘midst’ of this ‘last week’ Jesus was crucified and at that act HE CAUSED ALL THE BLOOD SACRIFICES TO CEASE FROM THAT TIME FORWARD to this day. Didn’t He?

    3) Did he make ‘it’ (the abominations of the Jews) to cease to be acceptable to God and make their ‘religion’ a thing of nought? Yes indeed.

    4) Did He make their ‘temple’ desolate until His return? Yes indeed. The pouring out was the coup d’ gras with help by Titus the Roman.

    But the stiff necked of Bethel say, well where IS the Week? Stand by. It was of course part of the seventy, but here it’s precise location within them. After all, there are only seventy weeks, not 71.

    So since the 490 days has already been shown, let’s locate the week referred to in 9:27
    Turn now to Ezekiel, chapter 4. To get the full picture, start at verse 1, but here is the ‘meat’

    Ezek 4:4-7
    4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
    5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
    6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
    7 Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it. (KJV)

    Now, add the days… 390+40 = 430 days.

    In the first post of this thread, we saw from the Gospels that there were precisely 434 days or 62 weeks from Christ’s Baptism to the Crucifixion. So, then, this “week” of Dan 9:27 must end at his Resurrection to full fill all the things mentioned in the covenant of Dan 9:27.

    Now, since He was Crucified on day 434, and Dan 9:27 says it was ’the midst of the week’ the week must have started 4 days earlier, or on day 430. Note that this was ALSO the time when Ezekiel was allowed to get up from his prophesying…

    So, we should be able to look in the Gospels and see it, right? Yep.

    We shall now find the 'week' in which Jesus 'confirmed' the covenant. It will be the last week, culminating in His resurrection. Let us look into the Gospel record. John 12:1 states that six days before the Passover, (this would be five days before the preparation day when he was crucified), Jesus came to Bethany, to the house of Mary and Martha. He had a meal and spent the night. The next day (Jn 12:12), or precisely four days before the preparation day (the Crucifixion) Christ made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem riding on the donkey. (Jn 12:12-16) People welcomed Him with Hosannas and Palm leaves.

    Now, guess what? We have shown that it was 434 days (62 weeks) from the baptism to the crucifixion. Now, if we subtract the 4 days before the crucifixion where He formally showed Himself as Messiah to Israel, from the 434, we have precisely the 430 days where Ezekiel lay on his side for the transgressions of Israel! This begins the final week, where "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease", for He became our Passover sacrifice forever. (1 Cor 5:7), making vain and void the animal sacrifice of the Jews.

    Thus this verse (Dan 9:27) describes the events of the "last week" of Christ's ministry. The week began on day 430 with his entry into Jerusalem. In the midst of the 4th day (midweek) He was crucified. The end of the week (3 days later) was the resurrection, where indeed all things were then finished and turned over to the The Father. This, then future, is the prophecy of the last half of Dan 9:27. It is desolate until the end of the war between God and Satan.
    As was previously shown, the total time from baptism to the second following Pentecost filled the complete 70 weeks, or 490 days. God's Word is true, and amazing in accuracy, needing only Faith in His written Word to prove.

    Amazing is the Word and it's detail. For 3 and a half days after His entrance on the donkey, or precisely the 'middle of the week' (at the 6th hour, or noon, He was crucified! His crucifixion would indeed 'cause the sacrifice and oblation' to cease, as He became our sacrifice for all time!! At the end of that final week, or 3 days and nights later, He is resurrected as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

    The Romans under Titus destroyed the physical temple within that very generation He foretold in Matt 24 and Mk 13 . God did this "For the overspreading of abominations", that is for their refusal of Him. The temple will, according to Dan 9:27, remain desolate. Hence it will not be rebuilt by man, for Christ has said that the temple the Jews so revered was left unto them desolate, with not a stone on top of another. True to this Word, Father has throughout history impeded all previous attempts to rebuild the temple, and will continue to do so.

    Stop your pipe dreams, Bethel. God’s truth is so much stranger than your fiction.
    It is written in plain sight for those who look without help from Scofield study notes.

    Be careful for there is much with a fishy stink on these boards.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)
    I see that many of you are still doubtful. Particularly those of you who cling to the fables of Bethel as taught by your pastors from his Scofield ‘study bible’ notes. In particular, you cling to your rUpture, and your ‘last seven years’ fable. This in spite of the fulfillment of the ENTIRE 70 weeks as was shown in the initial part of this thread. ALL of them. Yet, you still want another week, when ( 9:24) specifically said there were only 70..
    I thought you previously had bid us "farewell". Well, in any case, your ramblings, which border on incoherent at times, don't prove your points. And you betray the weakness of your doctrines by trying to belittle those who believe something different, thinking they are just blindly following false teachers. But that simply isn't true. Instead, you seem to be the one with blinders on when you try to force Scripture to conform to your views.

    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    Yet, You point at---
    Dan 9:27

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)

    Your ‘pastors’ say “see--That’s ‘antichrist’ --see? Well, it ain’t.. not by a long shot.
    The ‘He’ is JESUS..
    First, to understand who Dan 9:27 is referring to you need to look at the context. Here is the previous verse:

    Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One shall be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end shall be with a flood, and even to the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
    After 62 weeks Messiah is "cut off" but it is the prince who shall come who is the subject of the remainder of verse 26 and the beginning of verse 27, not Christ. Dan 9 verses 25 and 26 both talk about a "prince" but they are different princes. One is the Anointed Prince and one is not. It is the Anointed Prince who is cut off and the other prince appears after that. He is the prince of the people who destroyed the Temple and he is the imposter, the antichrist. This un-anointed prince cannot be Christ.

    And Christ's death didn't cause the sacrifice and oblation to "cease". The Jews were still sacrificing in the Temple for decades after Christ's death until the Romans (the people of the prince who shall come) destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. This continuation of Temple sacrifices and the consequences of continuing to trust in them is one of the main reasons the book of Hebrews was written.

    And in no way can it be said that Christ made or confirmed any covenant for "one week", however long you want to say a week is. The Old Covenant (the Mosaic Covenant) ended with Christ's death on the cross (Jer 31:31-33, 2Cor 3:7-14, Heb 8:13). Christ announced the New Covenant in His blood at the Last Supper, but in no way is it restricted to "one week". And the New Covenant isn't a "renewal" of the Old Covenant. It is a different covenant with different requirements (Heb 7:12).

    Also, the Hebrew word for "covenant" in Dan 9:27 cannot be restricted to only mean a covenant between God and man. In several places in the OT it is used to refer to agreements between groups of people.

    And finally, you are ignoring what Christ has said about these verses in Daniel and the abomination of desolation and the end times. Christ spoke about them in Mat 24 and Mark 13. Christ told the people who see the abomination of desolation to flee Jerusalem because there would be such a tremendous tribulation that if God hadn't cut those days short no one on earth would have survived. Is that what happened in 70 AD? And immediately after that tribulation the sun would be darkened and the moon would not give its light and all would see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Is that what happened in 70 AD?

    These issues which you don't address and can't reconcile with your doctrine are just the tip of the iceberg. Everyone is not going to agree on every doctrine of Scripture but don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is spiritually blind.

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    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Sorry, but there are not two princes mentioned there. The mentioned one was Titus, which happened in history. (~70AD..Do You have a different bible?


    Dan 9:27
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)

    Sorry, but there is no 'he prince' there, either..

    Cant be lazy. Gotta watch those English words the translators used. If you don’t look at what the texts actually say, you are depending on the words of man. There is no he in the texts.

    In the texts, the words in the kjv “and he shall confirm” are but ONE Hebrew word.. #1396 gabar (gaw-bar'); a primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently:
    As used in the KJV-- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.
    So, since even the translators cant make up their mind ‘confirming’ is in the mind of Bethel. Please note also, there is no ‘he’ there. Man inferred the ‘he’, and the ‘confirm‘. Also, although 'he' is used three times in the english in this verse, the subject of the action refers back to the same one who cut the covenant, and that was God.

    The word ‘covenant’ is 1285 beriyth (ber-eeth'); from 1262 (in the sense of cutting [like 1254]); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh): -confederacy, [con-] feder [-ate], covenant, league.
    Like when God made the covenant with Noah, and same word as when he passed between the pieces of Abraham’s sacrifice. Same word as when God made his covenant with Isaac, and then with Jacob. So, the he is God, and the week was as shown with the gospel references in the post. It was the week beginning when Christ entered Jerusalem on the donkey, and ending in His resurrection.
    Now, most Christians do concur, that His Crucifixion and Resurrection is the ONLY Covenant that we accept, right? If one can’t accept that, I really feel for them.

    So, ‘and he shall confirm the covenant ‘ is, in the texts simply “strong covenant”
    That’s God.

    And here is the covenant, and it is NOT made by any antuchrist.


    Heb 10:4-8
    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

    Actually, anyone who sees these words and don’t believe them, is in a world of hurt.

    2077 zebach- sacrifice a) sacrifices of righteousness
    b) sacrifices of strife
    c) sacrifices to dead things
    d) the covenant sacrifice
    e) the Passover
    f) an annual sacrifice
    g) a thank-offering

    4503 minchah-

    a gift, a tribute, an offering, a present, an oblation, a sacrifice, a meat-offering
    a) a gift, a present
    b) tribute
    c) an offering (to God)
    d) a grain-offering

    Yep, he made them desolate, forever
    Heb 10:4-8
    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law
    Heb 10:16-18
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
    1 Cor 5:7
    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: (KJV)

    I concur that it was not accepted by the Jews, for they still did them, and even want to today. so does Betel still have their idols and images.

    And THAT is the abomination that makes desolate, not some future ‘antichrist.

    Here’s the word ‘abomination’ as in V 27 --- 8251 shiqquwts or shiqquts-

    a detestable thing or an idol, an abominable thing, an abomination, an idol, a detested thing

    And heres the word ‘desolation’ - 8074 shamem- to be desolate, to be appalled, to stun, to stupefy
    a) (Qal)
    1) to be desolated, to be deflowered, to be deserted, to be appalled
    2) to be appalled, to be awestruck
    b) (Niphal)
    1) to be desolated, to be made desolate
    2) to be appalled
    c) (Polel)
    1) to be stunned
    2) appalling, causing horror (participle); a horror-causer, an appaller (substantive)
    d) (Hiphil)
    1) to devastate, to ravage, to make desolated
    2) to appal, to show horror
    e) (Hophal) to lay desolate, to be desolated
    f) (Hithpolel)
    1) to cause to be desolate
    2) to be appalled, to be astounded
    3) to cause oneself desolation, to cause oneself ruin

    And here’s ‘consumation’ ==3617 kalah-

    completion, termination, full end, complete destruction, consumption, annihilation
    a) completion; completely, altogether (adverb)
    b) complete destruction, consumption, annihilation

    8074 shamem-
    to be desolate, to be appalled, to stun, to stupefy
    a) (Qal)
    1) to be desolated, to be deflowered, to be deserted, to be appalled
    2) to be appalled, to be awestruck
    b) (Niphal)
    1) to be desolated, to be made desolate
    2) to be appalled
    c) (Polel)
    1) to be stunned
    2) appalling, causing horror (participle); a horror-causer, an appaller (substantive)
    d) (Hiphil)
    1) to devastate, to ravage, to make desolated
    2) to appal, to show horror
    e) (Hophal) to lay desolate, to be desolated
    f) (Hithpolel)
    1) to cause to be desolate
    2) to be appalled, to be astounded
    3) to cause oneself desolation, to cause oneself ruin

    So, in summary, should you wish your words to be taken under advisement, It would be a good plan to actually prove them by the received text. The words of Bethel are proven false by anyone who cares to look, because of their many idols and Scofield study notes.
    Now, since the blood of bulls and goats don’t work anymore, and the jews stone temple will never be rebuilt, and since you appear to be interested in the time of the end, just perhaps you need to think about it differently than Bethel says.

    Finally, you obviously attack messengers because you cannot refute the message by scripture. You really should disprove anything with scripture, not tired old words of Bethel that do not hold up when shown the actual text. You would get more replies that way, at least from me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Sorry, but there are not two princes mentioned there. The mentioned one was Titus, which happened in history. (~70AD..Do You have a different bible?
    I think the real question is have you actually read and studied the verse you just quoted and the previous one? Do you not know that the Messiah in verse 25 is called "Messiah the prince"? You would do well to set aside your arrogance and condescension when you come to study Scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    So, ‘and he shall confirm the covenant ‘ is, in the texts simply “strong covenant”
    That’s God.

    And here is the covenant, and it is NOT made by any antuchrist.
    That is simply your opinion of those verses in Daniel. Nothing you have presented comes anywhere close to proving it.

    BTW, your continued use of the word "Bethel" as a pejorative term to belittle those who disagree with you is getting worn out. Why don't you think of something new. Or better yet, maybe you could try treating others with a little respect.

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