Bethel: Con't You Yet See That The Seven Last Times Were Over long, Long Ago?

[Forty9er]

Who will be striving to build the physical 3rd temple now? Unbelievers, those with a spirit of deep sleep…no sight; no hearing…the branches that were cut out…

Zec 14:18 And if the clan of Mitsrayim does not come up and enter in, then there is no rain. On them is the plague with which יהוה plagues the nations who do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.e Footnote: eBooths.
Zec 14:19 This is the punishment of Mitsrayim and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.e Footnote: eBooths.

But why? I thought those were done away?

Now come the contradictions. Who would be striving to build the Temple? You would if you really believed you were still under the Law and not a jot or tittle could pass from the Law. Not one of the feasts can be observed in accordance with every jot or tittle of the Law without animal sacrifices or offerings.

If you say you are observing the feasts today without sacrifices or offerings what you are really observing is a pretend feast so you can say you are following the Law and can then accuse all of us "torahless" people of being lawless sinners. That is very similar to what the Judaizers were saying in Acts 15.

[Off-Grid Organics]

Now come the contradictions. Who would be striving to build the Temple? You would if you really believed you were still under the Law and not a jot or tittle could pass from the Law. Not one of the feasts can be observed in accordance with every jot or tittle of the Law without animal sacrifices or offerings.

If you say you are observing the feasts today without sacrifices or offerings what you are really observing is a pretend feast so you can say you are following the Law and can then accuse all of us "torahless" people of being lawless sinners. That is very similar to what the Judaizers were saying in Acts 15.

Not at all, the 'law' I am not under is the law of sin and death; you sin, you die.

Rom 8:2 For the torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah יהושע has set me free from the torah of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For the Torah being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim, having sent His own Son in the likeness of flesh of sin, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 so that the righteousness of the Torah should be completed in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the matters of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the matters of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards Elohim, for it does not subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able,

Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the Torah are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the doers of the Torahc shall be declared right. Footnote: c Mat_7:21-27, Jas_2:14-24.

Rom 6:1 What, then, shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, to let favour increase?
Rom 6:2 Let it not be! How shall we who died to sina still live in it? Footnote: aSee Rom_8:13, Col_3:3, 1Pe_2:24.

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.c Footnote: cSee Rom_7:12.

ABSOLUTELY no sacrifices necessary right now...

1Pe 2:4 Drawing near to Him, a living Stone – rejected indeed by men, but chosen by Elohim and precious –
1Pe 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up, a spiritual house, a set-apart priesthood, to offer up spiritual slaughter offerings acceptable to Elohim through יהושע Messiah.

It is YOU who is waiting for unbelieving men to build a temple to satisfy your scofieldism. I await Messiah Who says HE will build it.

You need to drop your LaHaye/Jenkins mindset. They too fell for the jesuit lie.

[Off-Grid Organics]

Acts 15...conclusion:

Act 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the nations who are turning to Elohim,

Act 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols,a and from whoring,b and from what is strangled,c and from blood.d Footnotes: a Exo_22:20, Lev_17:7, Deu_32:17, Deu_32:21, 1Co_10:14, 1Co_10:20-21. b Num_25:1-3, Lev_17:7. c Gen_9:4, Eze_33:25 (Strangled - One way of eating meat with blood) Pro_21:25. d Lev_17:10-14.

Act 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”

As they were TURNING, they would learn more Torah each Sabbath. Those 4 TORAH restrictions mentioned needed halted immediately.

Isn't context great?

[Off-Grid Organics]

pretend feast

The only pretend feasts that I know of are PAGAN...you know, the ones adopted by churchianity and not found in Scripture?

Lev 23:2 ... ‘The appointed times of יהוה, which you are to proclaim as set-apart gatherings, My appointed times, are these:

[Off-Grid Organics]

Now come the contradictions.

Why do 'Christians' (who read Paul with a torahless mindset) do exactly the what they were warned NOT to do?


2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. Footnote: 1See 1 Cor. 11:6.

2Pe 3:17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,

DELUSION for the torahless is a pretty strong term...a deluded person cannot be aware of their delusion. Yikes.


Mat 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’

Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’1 Footnote: 1 See v. 15.




Isa 8:20 To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.a Footnote: aOr light.

Isa 42:20 “You see much, but do not guard; ears are open, but do not hear.”
Isa 42:21 It has delighted יהוה, for the sake of His righteousness, to make the Torah great and esteemed.
Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and plundered, all of them are snared in holes, and they are hidden in prison houses. They have become a prey, with no one to deliver – for plunder, and no one to say, “Restore!”
Isa 42:23 Who among you gives ear to this, pays attention and hears for the time to come?


Isa 42:4 “He does not become weak or crushed, until He has established right-ruling in the earth. And the coastlands wait for His Torah.”

[Forty9er]

Not at all, the 'law' I am not under is the law of sin and death; you sin, you die.

You are deceiving yourself. There is no separate law of sin and death. The law of sin and death is the Law of Moses:

Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.
Deut 30:16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.
Deut 30:17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them,
Deut 30:18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess.
Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

If there is a separate law of sin and death apart from the Law of Moses please quote it for me and show me where it is in Scripture.

Galatians also makes it clear what Law we are not under:

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.

Maybe you can tell me. In what Law is it written that Abraham had two sons? Was that a separate law of sin and death or was it the Law of Moses?

ABSOLUTELY no sacrifices necessary right now...

Now you are just making things up as you go and ignoring what the Law requires.

So which is it? Has heaven and earth passed away or has all been fulfilled?

Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You need to drop your LaHaye/Jenkins mindset. They too fell for the jesuit lie.

I don't and haven't followed either of those men in regard to doctrine. The only doctrines I subscribe to are clearly taught in Scripture.

[Off-Grid Organics]

The law of sin and death is the Law of Moses:

Oh boy.

Psa 19:7 The Torah of יהוה is perfect H8549...

Psa 119:1 Aleph Blessed are the perfectH8549 in the way, Who walk in the Torah of יהוה!

H8549
תָּמִים
tâmı̂ym
taw-meem'
From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

Perfect sounds pretty good to me.
Pro 28:4 Those who forsake the Torah praise the wrong, Those who guard the Torah strive with them.

Psa 37:31 The Torah of his Elohim is in his heart;b His steps do not slide. Footnote: b Deu_6:6, Psa_40:8, Psa_119:11, Isa_51:7.


Isa 51:7 “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.

Isa 51:8 “For a moth eats them like a garment, and a worm eats them like wool; but My righteousness is forever, and My deliverance to all generations.” Wait...WHO gets eaten up?????

Blameless sound pretty good...how'd they get that commendation?

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before Elohim, blamelessly walking in all the commands and righteousnesses of יהוה.

I fear this has it's grip on you...2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. Footnote: 1See 1 Cor. 11:6.

2Pe 3:17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,
Better things to do right now...

[watchman]

Well Presented, O-GO. I am however convinced that Bethel must learn truth later. An old saying in Appalachia is "You waste your time washing a sow until it is dead".

There's plenty of time. It's indicated in Rev 20, but the full description in the last 9 chapters of Ezekiel has it in great detail.

It is shown there that those who hold to the first covenant, and have rejected the second, namely Yashua's plain offer will indeed have a 1000 year chance to find their own salvation by the first covenant. Since Bethel will not let go of the dead law, they have no claim on the second.

Which is SOLELY as stated in plain english.

Matt 22:38-40
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (KJV)

Gal 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (KJV)

and, since there are none so blind as those who refuse to see,

It is then that Bethel will get a belly full of temples, instead-of- christs, red cows and other assorted and numerous ordinances.

Father does indeed have a wry sense of humor while giving ALL his children their heart's desires.

Here, Bethel He says... have at it. For the next 1000 years.

Keep lookin' up... It is written that not a single Word Of God Will fail...

[watchman]

Promises, promises.

Indeed. And here is yet another promise. I will continue to pitch yet more hot coals under the feet of bethel, so long as I draw breath. Not simply because I find their exotic dance with the idols both amusing and meaningless, but because the remaining time is short.

So,If the heat becomes too unbearable, let bethel go once more to their own piece of dirt and dig up a few more of the 'gods' that Jacob buried there. Mayhap they may find yet another new ruse to propagate, for the ones they had presented and worship have had their clothes removed
and they stand naked.

[Forty9er]

Blameless sound pretty good...how'd they get that commendation?

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before Elohim, blamelessly walking in all the commands and righteousnesses of יהוה.

Yes, blameless would sound pretty good to anyone who believes their righteousness comes from the Law.

Prov 14:12 ​​​​​​​​There is a way that seems right to a man, ​​​​​​​but its end is the way to death.

It says that they were blameless because no person observing them could find fault with how they were following the Law. But God looks on the heart and that is not how He sees them. The only reason it says they were righteous before God is because, like Abraham, they believed God and it was counted to them as righteousness.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Do you have something to boast about? Are you "working" for your acceptance before God and expect to receive your wages of righteous, or are you one of the ones who does not work but just believes in God and receives the righteousness from God that is based on faith alone?