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Thread: Walking As Messiah, Or Walking After The Dictates Of Men?

  1. #1
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    Default Walking As Messiah, Or Walking After The Dictates Of Men?

    Torah folks do have some stuff in common with christianity. We both know Messiah paid our sin debt, which cannot be earned. We love to do charity, helping others. We love to worship. Most of us had our beginnings with a KJV. I bet I could think of other things if I spent more time pondering it. Maybe it’s easier to just list a few areas where our paths make distinct and uncompromising separations.

    First off, we are hard-core believers/followers of Messiah. When He said heaven and earth would pass away before the least part of Torah would (Matt 5:18 ), we actually believe Him. When He said we are to live by every word out of the mouth of YHUH (Matt 4:4), we believe that too. Where does christianity stand on that? So that makes us hard-core YHUH followers as well, knowing we are to imitate Him (Eph 5:1). And in like manner, we are indebted to walk as Messiah walked (1Jn 2:6); He is our Example - not our excuse. How do others do that without walking in Torah?

    We also believe that only YHUH can define sin, not men. He said sin was transgression of Torah (1Jn 3:4) and apart from Torah, sin cannot be known (Rom 7:7). We are to cease from sin, grace is no excuse (Rom 6:1-2, John 5:14, 8:11). We know it is a carnal, fleshly mind that opposes Torah and is at enmity with YHUH (Rom 8:7). Any ‘gospel’ that allows the same sins that Messiah died for to be acceptable after repentance won’t pass a sniff test with us. We absolutely will not mock His sacrifice. What sins are now acceptable in christianity? Serious question.

    We believe that true repentance is to acknowledge our sins of breaking Torah, turn from those sins, and make Teshuva (return to Him) by keeping His covenant. The Word says Torah are the terms of the covenant, YHUH expects those terms to be written upon our hearts (Jer 31:33, Heb 8:10, 10:16). That makes us ‘living stones’ (1Pet 2:5). When this happens, YHUH CAUSES us to walk in Torah (Ez 36:26-27). This hasn’t happened in christianity. A covenant is claimed, but the terms are ignored. IGNORED.

    We know Paul’s writings can be “hard to understand”, even by those who were raised in and walked Torah all their lives. Even more, the letters are a one-sided response, creating more difficulty. A great warning is issued in that regard to ANY that read his letters with a mindset of being anti-Torah. That leads to perversion of Scriptures, leading to destruction (2Pet 3:16-17). We’ve found this to be the case with christianity. We know only a satanically inspired beast system would even think to change Torah (Dan 7:25). Paul made it clear salvation cannot be earned by Torah (we all have sinned), but also made it perfectly clear that faith/belief does not do away with it, rather we establish Torah (Rom 3:31), the doers of such being justified (Rom 2:13). If Paul is your excuse to sin, you’ve made a huge error. EVERYONE found in the Word kept Torah. YHUH calls it perfect (Ps 19:7). Christianity calls it bondage, legalism, and other nasty stuff. What does your pastor call Torah? Do you think Paul could/would think to change Torah (Dan 7:25)?? Think about that as long as you need to.

    We understand the entirety of Scripture must flow in harmony, unbroken (Jn 10:35), no dispensational nonsense. The Word “from the beginning” (1Jn 2:7). ALL Scripture is applied for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction (2Ti 3:16). YHUH does not have to say things twice. His Words carry through in the entirety of the book. With such understanding, terms and words can be identified, such as when Messiah said “ravening wolves” would have to be encountered and dealt with (Matt 7:15). Those words were clearly defined in our ‘dictionary’ (Ez 22:26-27), we know what they do - “violated my Torah, profaned my holy things: put no difference between the set-apart and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my Shabbaths”. That is profaning YHUH. How does a christian ‘pastor’ stand on THOSE matters? We know where YHUH stands. He doesn’t change (Mal 3:6).

    We absolutely know Sabbath remains unchanged, It was Creationally given for all mankind (Gen 2:3, Mk 2:7). Christianity has adopted Rome’s sun-worship day - along with all the pagan trappings of x-mess, ishtar, and other such nonsense. We only keep the feast days of YHUH, just like everyone in Scripture did. Those are HIS set times, HIS, not man’s (Lev 23:2). It’s NOT a light matter to brush this off, we don’t want to view the corpses of transgressors (Is 66:22-23), we want to warn you. Please take the time to look to the future (Zech 14:17-18 ). ALL His Fall Feasts are yet to be fulfilled at His appointed times. They were never ‘done away’, they are for His covenant people.

    Of course we never defile ourselves with eating abomination either, no pig, no shellfish, no cats, no dogs (Is 66:17, 2Co 6:17). We know how YHUH feels about that too (Lev 11:11). We agree with Peter “NEVER”! (Acts 10:14). See the vision was not about eating a monkey, but calling MEN common or unclean (Acts 10:28 ). Even Noah knew the clean/unclean distinction (Gen 7:2). None of that has changed. None of it. Christianity says differently. More inherited lies.

    There is so, SO much more. But those are the basics. All this may seem very PECULIAR to christianity. It’s supposed to be, just like He said (1Pet 2:9, Dt 26:18 ). He has a word for this type of peculiarity, it’s called His segûllâh, likened to treasured jewels (Mal 3:17, Ex 19:5). Never heard any christian pastor talk about these matters, specifically who would qualify. Then again, Messiah warned The Way is narrow and few would actually find it (Matt 7:14). Is christianity the narrow Way??

    Torah has been denigrated for far too long. Christianity really has NO clue with regards to His instructions. Messiah kept Torah perfectly, yet He didn’t keep all of Torah. Why? Because we keep what actually applies to US! There are instructions that only pertain to women, to men, to married people, to kings, to priests, judges, to those with livestock, to lepers, to those with servants, farmers, when the temple is active, etc. Christianity thinks there are 613 laws that each are responsible for. It’s just plain silly. Men have carved this up into moral, civil, and ecclesiastical laws since the Westminster Confession of Faith in the 1600’s. Those are more spoon fed lies as YHUH makes NONE of those classifications. That’s apostate heresy.

    The Way of your path should be leading to an exact destination to know if you have deviated. His coming Kingdom will be all Torah (Is 2:3). Where is your path leading? Will you walk as Messiah, or after the dictates of men (Mar 7:7)? Will you be part of the many in the “lord, lord” Torahless crowd (Matt 7:21-23)?

    ”COME OUT of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Rev 18:4

    Hodu l'YHUH!
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



  2. #2
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    Absolutely wonderful! Perfect for our little men's group! After our meeting, on Wednesday, (ten of us),I began to write a similar exposition, though your's is so much better! I had thought to introduce them to the Feasts and Calendar of God, but, of course got back talk from the established christians in the group...."Legalism...I can eat anything I want"..."God is only interested in our hearts, therefore I walk by the Spirit...not by the letter of the law."

    I had hoped we had made some progress, and we have, as there are at least four of us who do desire to guard and keep God's commands and not twist what Paul says. So, I spent some time yesterday, interestingly, offering some of the same points and scriptures you made above, friend!

    But, as I said, yours is so much better than mine....I will to share yours unabridged, to start us off next week, LORD willing, and be sure to give credit where it is due, OK?. It honestly grieved my heart to hear from the churchmen, and the two young bucks, arguing against keeping God's commands.

    Thanks, brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Torah folks do have some stuff in common with christianity. We both know Messiah paid our sin debt, which cannot be earned. We love to do charity, helping others. We love to worship. Most of us had our beginnings with a KJV. I bet I could think of other things if I spent more time pondering it. Maybe it’s easier to just list a few areas where our paths make distinct and uncompromising separations.
    Always easier to focus on differences. One of man's many failings.
    "In times of change, the Patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Torah folks do have some stuff in common with christianity.
    What exactly are "Torah folks" called if not Christians?
    "In times of change, the Patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    What exactly are "Torah folks" called if not Christians?
    Personally, I think THE WAY is much clearer understanding since we are on THE WAY back to what was lost. I wouldn't like being called a christian because that's what the counterfeits go by. I DO NOT want to be confused with them.

    Gen 3:24 and He drove the man out. And He placed keruḇim at the east of the garden of Ěḏen, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard THE WAY to the tree of life.

    Act 24:14 But this I confess unto you, that after THE WAY which they call heresy, so worship I the Elohiym of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Torah and in the prophets

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



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    Off Grid, Regarding the beginning of months according to God's instructions, I mentioned the idea last Wednesday at the men's Bible study that some think the full moon begins a month, instead of the sliver, and one of the guys asked for scriptural reference. I'll go back to the thread when we mentioned it briefly, but, want to ask if you have a recommendation to where we should start? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    Off Grid, Regarding the beginning of months according to God's instructions, I mentioned the idea last Wednesday at the men's Bible study that some think the full moon begins a month, instead of the sliver, and one of the guys asked for scriptural reference. I'll go back to the thread when we mentioned it briefly, but, want to ask if you have a recommendation to where we should start? Thanks
    Created to rule the night, darkness when they came out of Egypt, eclipse at the crucifixion, Messiah returns at full moon, only moon phase mentioned in Scripture... NO hint of sliver or no moon in the Word anywhere.
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Created to rule the night, darkness when they came out of Egypt, eclipse at the crucifixion, Messiah returns at full moon, only moon phase mentioned in Scripture... NO hint of sliver or no moon in the Word anywhere.
    Thank you. So, the sliver idea to begin months is simply a tradition? Interesting. When you say Messiah returns at full moon, what do you mean? Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    When you say Messiah returns at full moon, what do you mean? Thanks again.
    We have these VERY interesting verses which clearly describe Messiah who went on a long journey (during which time the harlot entices and allures her victims) and returns on the FULL MOON (Yom Teruah-Ps. 81:3) Pro 7:19-20 For the man is not at home; He is gone a LONG JOURNEY: He hath taken a bag of money with him; He will come home at the FULL MOON. (A few verses to provide insight on describing this ‘Man’ Who went on a long journey: Mat 25:14-15 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a FAR COUNTRY, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway TOOK HIS JOURNEY. Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a FAR JOURNEY, WHO LEFT HIS HOUSE, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. (also see Mat. 21:33)


    This would TIE IN PERFECTLY with the return of our Messiah at Yom Teruah, when the trumpets are blown to usher in The King…and the moon is FULL, BRIGHT LIGHT! Midnight? Mat 25:6 “And at MIDNIGHT a cry was heard, ‘See, the bridegroom is coming, go out to meet him!’ Also of interest: Exo 11:4 And Mosheh said, “Thus said יהוה, ‘About MIDNIGHT I am going out into the midst of Mitsrayim...”
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    So, the sliver idea to begin months is simply a tradition?
    I sure can't find it in Scripture! If it ain't there, it carries NO weight with me!
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



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