I was challenged on the matter. What's the ONLY moon phase mentioned in all of Scripture?Originally Posted by dmatic
Congressman
I was challenged on the matter. What's the ONLY moon phase mentioned in all of Scripture?
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Senator
Just a guess.....Full?
Senator
Maybe....Blood red? How about eclipsed? I'd better check the concordance.
Congressman
Great guess! WHO was the "Man" Who went on a long journey?
Pro 7:20 “...He comes home at the full moon.” Sounds like Yom Teruah...
Psa 81:3 Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the full moon, on our feast-day.
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Senator
What version are you using?
KJV has: Proverbs 7:20 "He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed."
Ps. 81:3 "Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day."
Congressman
Several versions, but checking each for accuracy with a Strong's.
"day appointed" -H3677
כֶּסֶה כֶּסֶא
kese' keseh
keh'-seh, keh'-seh
Apparently from H3680; properly fulness or the full moon,
"the time appointed" -H3677
כֶּסֶה כֶּסֶא
kese' keseh
keh'-seh, keh'-seh
Apparently from H3680; properly fulness or the full moon,
Strange they want that word mistranslated, eh??
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Congressman
I'll drop my friends notes with mine to follow, if interested...
WHEN DOES A MONTH BEGIN?
This is one of my dear study brother’s thoughts -
If YHWH’s People are instructed to observe a calendar, and I read in the Torah that we all are, then the entire instructions regarding our observance of that calendar must be in the Torah itself, since it also tells us never to add to it, or subtract from it.
YHWH’s People, from the time of the Torah, were responsible for the Words of the Torah, and so any calendar they were expected to observe at that time HAD to have been determined FROM the Words of the Torah. They were told to hear these instructions and walk in them. Period.
There just isn’t any argument to be made to the contrary, regardless of what human authority is doing the arguing.
If we find that something is amiss in our walk, where do we turn for understanding? Science? Archaeology? History? Tradition? A word of private knowledge? Buried treasure? Academia? Scholars? Rabbis? Descendants of the Priesthood? The interpretations of others including sincere believers such as Peter, Paul or John?
Yahshua told us that the Torah is not changeable. Not a jot or a tittle. These Words of His Father are the Rock on which to build a house that will never be cast down. All the prophets point us to the Torah as the Instruction for life.
In the Torah YHWH told us that He gave us the sun and moon for times and for His Moedim so we can’t ignore that. He also insisted that He (YHWH) receive the Firstfruits of the first harvest at the time of Pesach in the form of baked loaves, and that no one else partake of that first harvest until He received those firstfruits.
He declared in Shemot 12 and 13 that the “chodesh of the abib” is the “beginning of chodeshim” for His People. With these instructions YHWH put in place a calendar that is simple to determine, is observable by anyone without any argument or controversy as to when it begins, and fits perfectly with every Scripture and indeed the entire “Bible” as we think of it today.
Every term, every reference, every concept, understanding, aspect and every practice involved in keeping this calendar comes directly from the Torah.
YHWH’s requirement regarding the Firstfruits constitutes a brilliantly conceived practical and economic impetus to determine the “beginning of chodeshim” as early as possible while still fulfilling the requirement for an offering of baked cakes from the firstfruit, even if the drying process of the grain must be “parched with fire” to speed it up. And yet it also allowed Him to determine the Calendar each year as the One who orders the conditions required for the harvest.
Farmers, grain processors, merchants, family gardeners and the entire economy of an agrarian society would put great pressure on to call the “beginning of chodeshim” as early as possible! It’s quite amazing how it works!
The firstfruit harvest determines the time of “abib.” But what about this “chodesh” that is the “beginning of chodeshim?”
YHWH doesn’t say what a “chodesh” is!
Does He leave us in the dark? NEVER! There is a faithful witness!
We know that in the first chodesh we observe Passover, Unleavened Bread and during Unleavened Bread we begin the counting toward Shavuot at Firstfruits. In the seventh chodesh we observe Yom Teruah, Yom Kippurim and Sukkot. We are told in the Torah about other events that occurred in the second chodesh, the third, fourth and so on.
“Chodesh” strictly defined in Klines Hebrew Dictionary means “restoration,” “rejuvenation,” “reactivation,” “recreation.”
Within its paleo-Hebrew letters is the concept of an enclosure or enclosed area, a doorway or entrance, and fire or brightness.
There is NO concept of a counting or tabulation of days within the MEANING of chodesh.
What brightly lit enclosure, space or area announces the entrance to something—the “beginning of chodeshim for you?”
What gets restored, reactivated, rejuvenated and recreated multiple times each year before our very eyes so that EVERYONE can see and attest to it?
The cycle of the moon of course!
No one has intentionally claimed “chodesh” means “moon!” It is the restoration, rejuvenation, reactivation and recreation of the moon—its cycle of light. Thus we end up with Shavuot in the third chodesh after a counting of seven weekly Sabbaths and we celebrate Yom Teruah, Yom Kippurim and Sukkot in the seventh chodesh or recreation of the cycle of light.
Then one must ask, “when is the cycle of the moon “restored,” “reactivated,” “rejuvenated” and “reCreated?”
Once again it’s important not to wander off listening to voices and authorities, history, tradition and archaeology looking for someone’s interpretation of the answer.
Go back to TORAH ALONE for THE answer!
“And Elohim created two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule night.” The lesser light, of the two GREAT lights, that rules the night is the moon. The only time it RULES the night with light all night, not leaving YHWH’s People in darkness at all but providing light to them during the entire time of darkness, is when it is Full!
When the moon is Full it rises at evening and sets at morning RULING the night with light all night long.
This event is EASILY observable by everyone. A young child can see when the entire circumference of the moon is sharply defined all the way around! And one can observe the moon getting fuller and fuller as the outline on one side gets better and better defined, and likewise see that it has just begun to wane as the outline on the other side becomes less and less clearly defined.
The full moon at “the beginning of chodeshim” explains the darkness in the middle of the month at Passover as Israel left Egypt and the need for a pillar of fire to guide them “in the darkness,” the darkness at Passover when Yahshua proclaimed to the mob “this is your hour when darkness reigns,” the agreement between David and Jonathan that was based on a perfect knowledge of when the Feast would occur well in advance, Psalm 81:3 regarding the Full Moon/New Moon, the eclipse at the time of Yahshua’s death, the “thick darkness” when YHWH made Covenant with Abraham and prophesied regarding the sojourn of his descendants, and so forth on and on through Scripture.
The entire calendar is easily determined and the beginning of each chodesh is seen by all as it approaches and reaches “restoration” to the condition in which YHWH created it to rule the night with light.
Our family, along with a number of others we know of including some very dear brothers, have observed this calendar for quite a number of years and found that it is practical, that it is in complete harmony with the Word in every aspect, it leaves YHWH in control due to the ripening of the Firstfruit offering and most importantly that it is entirely based on the Torah instructions without any later influences by men.
Every other calendar I have studied falls short in some regard, requires concepts or authorities of men not specified in the Torah, and most importantly, does not operate in perfect harmony with Torah instruction.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject -
Psa 104:19 “HE MADE the moon for appointed (moedim) times...”
Gen 1:16 “And ELOHIM MADE two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the LESSER LIGHT TO RULE the night...”
What is a new moon? The topic comes up quite often, so I pieced together some of what we have found, and a few reasons why we regard the full moon as the new moon. Let’s be honest here. How did you arrive at the way you determine a new moon? Did you find it on your own in the Scriptures, or is it something you were simply taught through tradition and held on to? That’s what I did. For many years I went with the sliver reckoning, but it wasn’t because I searched it out on my own. I just went with the ‘flow’, until I was challenged on the matter. That’s when I finally dug in. Boy was I ever surprised! Now I challenge others to do the same. If you can show me proof of the sliver sighting or a no moon conjunction reckoning in Scripture, I’d love to see it. It’s just not there. I’m not trying to change your mind on the matter, we’re just sharing what was found and encouraging you to search it out as well.
Using only the TaNaK and the Brit Hadasha, how would you determine the moon phase that begins the month? You are the “lone person on the island” and a book of the Scriptures falls into your lap. Again, Scripture ONLY, no tradition or supposed historical accounts. Scripture only. Can you find any?
Let’s face it. There is NO ‘thus sayeth YHUH, this is the moon phase to use to begin your month’. That said, we can rely on differing traditions, or we can glean all the solid facts we have at our disposal from the Word. Again, I was quite content all those years with the sliver sighting, but when challenged, I couldn’t find even one mention of a sliver moon or a no moon (conjunction) in Scripture. Not one. Yet, “HE MADE the moon for appointed (moedim) times...” (Psa 104:19) “And ELOHIM MADE... the LESSER LIGHT TO RULE the night...” (Gen 1:16) We need to determine:
Exo 12:2 “This month is the beginning of months for you, it is the first month of the year for you. Would this be NO moon at all, a glimpse of a disappearing SLIVER moon, or a FULL moon? Important - Our MOEDIM calculations begin right here!
There are MANY various ways folks these days determine the new moon - some go with the traditional Judaism pre-calculated calendar, the Karaite tradition (the two most popular-a no moon conjunction and sliver glimpse), the Enochian, some use Equinox, Equilox, Tequfah, etc. We have simply tried to block out all outside input from these various methods and go with SCRIPTURE ONLY- with complete restoration as the goal. Two great lights were Created in the beginning, one to RULE the day; one to RULE the night. It is our belief that when these were created, they were not created invisible (no moon), or partial (sliver); but in their FULLEST substance according to their designed purpose: fullest light (full moon). Not seeing any moon certainly cannot rule the night, a brief glimpse and then darkness again won’t do the job either. If the goal is restoration, and Scriptures tell us it is, we simply believe the full moon fits ALL of Scripture. Matter of fact, it is the ONLY moon phase mentioned in all of Scripture!
So how about some MOEDIM history? Jer 8:7 “Even a stork in the heavens knows her appointed (MOEDIM) times. And a turtledove, and a swallow, and a thrush observe the time of their coming. BUT MY PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW the right-ruling of יהוה.
Isa 1:14 “My being HATES YOUR New Moons and YOUR appointed times (MOEDIM), they are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.
Hos 2:11 “And I shall cause ALL her rejoicing, her festivals, her New Moons, and her Sabbaths, even all her appointed times (MOEDIM), to cease…admittedly, Judah knows their calculated calendar is not accurate, but they keep using it...
What CAN we find in the Word with no traditional import?
Ask yourself which of the 7 moedim this best describes…new moon - full moon -feast day - blowing the shofar…Psa 81:3 BLOW THE SHOFAR at the time of the NEW MOON, At the FULL MOON, ON our festival day. This sure sounds precisely like this:
Lev 23:24 “Speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, saying, ‘In the seventh month, on the FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH, you have a rest, a remembrance of BLOWING OF TRUMPETS, a set-apart gathering’ (Num. 10:2,10).
There is not one mention of a no moon or sliver moon ever in Scripture. The ONLY moon phase ever mentioned is used twice - FULL moon - in the above, and also in the following portion describing Messiah (H3677 kese' keseh keh'-seh, keh'-she from H3680; properly FULLNESS OR THE FULL MOON, that is, its festival: - (time) appointed.)
Now we have these VERY interesting verses which clearly describe Messiah who went on a long journey (during which time the harlot entices and allures her victims) and returns on the FULL MOON (Yom Teruah-Ps. 81:3) Pro 7:19-20 For the man is not at home; He is gone a LONG JOURNEY: He hath taken a bag of money with him; He will come home at the FULL MOON. (A few verses to provide insight on describing this ‘Man’ Who went on a long journey: Mat 25:14-15 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a FAR COUNTRY, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway TOOK HIS JOURNEY. Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a FAR JOURNEY, WHO LEFT HIS HOUSE, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. (also see Mat. 21:33))
This would TIE IN PERFECTLY with the return of our Messiah at Yom Teruah, when the trumpets are blown to usher in The King…and the moon is FULL, BRIGHT LIGHT! Midnight? Mat 25:6 “And at MIDNIGHT a cry was heard, ‘See, the bridegroom is coming, go out to meet him!’ Also of interest: Exo 11:4 And Mosheh said, “Thus said יהוה, ‘About MIDNIGHT I am going out into the midst of Mitsrayim...”
Now look at this ultimate Pesach event as recorded by Luke. A contrived ‘cover-up’??:
Luk 23:45 “And the SUN WAS DARKENED, [G4654] and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.” Now, the KJV and other translations that essentially take off from the KJV show that word translated as darkened comes from the Greek skotizō meaning to cover with darkness, to darken. But that word IS NOT the original Greek word used in this verse. The noted physician Luke purposely chose the word EKLIPONTOS (eclipse) to describe the event, meaning darkened because of an eclipse.
Now it is unclear through history why someone, and it is likely that occurred way back around Constantine (when he authorized 50 copies of the Bible to be made around 331AD) needed to change the word because it didn’t make sense (or because of what it revealed). What didn’t make sense? HOW could you have a full solar eclipse when the moon is full? Impossible! But that is what Luke wrote. Was he misinformed? No, he was an eyewitness. Was he unlearned? No, he was very educated. So how could the sun be darkened by the covering of the disk of the sun by the moon if the moon was full? Could it be that the sun, which was worshiped by the Romans and the Greeks and many others, was shown to be vanquished at the death of the Messiah by the True Elohim by being eclipsed? I just bring up this point because the implication here is that it was a DARK MOON at the time of the crucifixion and the miracle here is that YHUH caused the eclipse; an event so terrifying to the pagans that they couldn’t deal with it afterwards. It's not really about the duration of a solar eclipse being extended from 8 minutes to three hours that's the operative miracle being played here; it's the fact that you CANNOT have a total solar eclipse during a full moon. An eclipse of the Sun (or solar eclipse) can ONLY occur at conjunction (no moon) when the Moon passes between Earth and Sun. This next piece is very interesting also…a contrived cover-up??
“The wording “the sun’s light failed” is a translation of τοῦ ἡλίου ἐκλιπόντος/ ἐκλείποντος (tou Jhliou eklipontos/ ekleipontos), a reading found in the earliest and best witnesses (among them Ì75 א B C*vid L 070 579 2542 pc) as well as several ancient versions. The majority of mss (A C3 [D] W Θ Ψ Ë1,13 Ï lat sy) have the flatter, less dramatic term, “the sun was darkened” (ἐσκοτίσθη, eskotisqe), a reading that AVOIDS the problem of implying an eclipse. This alternative thus looks secondary because it is a more common word and less likely to be misunderstood as referring to a solar eclipse. That it appears in later witnesses rather than the earliest ones adds confirmatory testimony to its inauthentic character.
This imagery has parallels to the Day of YHUH: Joel 2:10; Amos 8:9; Zeph 1:15. Some students of the NT see in Luke’s statement the sun’s light failed (eklipontos) an obvious blunder in his otherwise meticulous historical accuracy. The reason for claiming such an error on the author’s part is due to an understanding of the verb as indicating >>a solar eclipse when such would be an astronomical impossibility during a full moon<<. There are generally two ways to resolve this difficulty: (a) adopt a different reading (“the sun was darkened”) that smooths over the problem (discussed in the problem above), or (b) understand the verb eklipontos in a general way (such as “the sun’s light failed”) rather than as a technical term, “the sun was eclipsed.” The problem with the first solution is that it is too convenient, for the Christian scribes who, over the centuries, copied Luke’s Gospel would have thought the same thing. That is, they too would have sensed a problem in the wording and felt that some earlier scribe had incorrectly written down what Luke penned. The fact that the reading “was darkened” shows up in the later and generally inferior witnesses do not bolster one’s confidence that this is the right solution. But second solution, if taken to its logical conclusion, proves too much for it would nullify the argument against the first solution: If the term did not refer to an eclipse, then why would scribes feel compelled to change it to a more general term?
So, can the full moon be the new moon? Yes. Let’s examine a few more solid clues -
>The Full Moon/Abib Barley Calendar fits the Scriptures from beginning to end. Unlike the conjunction calendar, the beginning of the month is observable as Scripture prescribes. It is in perfect alignment with concept of Chodesh (POLISHED and SHINY- Chet-Dalet-Shin)--restored, renewed, rejuvenated, recreated---and YHUH’s original instruction to the moon to rule the night with light--not disappear after appearing leaving the world in darkness!
>It puts Pesach in DARKNESS which is Scriptural, or “thick darkness” as the Scriptures say repeatedly, in which the messenger of death did his work. It also requires the LIGHT of YHUH’s pillar of fire to guide Israel in the darkness:
Exo 13:20-21 And they departed from Sukkoth and camped in Ětham at the edge of the wilderness. And יהוה went before them by day in a column of cloud to lead the way, and by night in a column of fire TO GIVE THEM LIGHT, so as to go by day and NIGHT.
Neh 9:19 yet You, in Your great compassion did not forsake them in the wilderness. The column of the cloud did not turn away from them by day to lead them on the way, nor the column of FIRE BY NIGHT TO GIVE THEM LIGHT in the way they were to go, and with YHUSHA’s declaration to the mob on the night before His Pesach,
Luk 22:53 ”While I was with you day after day in the Temple, you didn't lay a hand on me. But this is your hour, when DARKNESS REIGNS!" It fits. Albeit not by any manner of traditions. Remember, our focus is on Scripture; not tradition.
Beyond that it becomes a beautiful illustration of the Bride who descends from the perfect plan that YHUH had for her, into the darkness of the fall, and back into the light of full restoration. Instead of turning her face from darkness into the full light of Messiah and then back into darkness again, she falls from His grace (light) into darkness but is restored into the fullness of His light reflecting Him with every part of her being.
The sliver moon and conjunction calendars fall short from a Hebraic standpoint. They teach that the Chodesh or restoration leaves the world in darkness, un-illuminated, just as the sliver and the conjunction do. The concept of Chodesh, or full restoration is lost. The darkness and the sliver are inconsistent with the meaning of the letters Chet-Dalet-Shin; the portal of the month defined by enclosed brightness and light.
At Full Moon, the Moon rises in the east at exactly the same time as the Sun sets in the west, and that's the only night in the whole month when the Moon is in the night sky all night long. This is a beautiful thing to witness - the two witnesses presented! Face to face!
The moon is a Messianic Bride symbol just as the sun is a Messianic Bridegroom symbol. Just as the moon has no light of its own but reflects the light of the sun and therefore shows its glory, so is the Bride with the Bridegroom.
The commonly used Hebrew word for moon is “levanah,” which is related to the word for white. It is the Bride who will first be robed in white, the color representing righteousness.
Mal 4:2 “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise
Son 6:10 Who is she who shines forth as the morning, Fair as the moon..
Scripturally speaking, the full moon has actual standing in the Word where ANY of the alternatives offered fall FLAT, but to see it you must set tradition on the shelf and have a full, honest look for yourselves. I would further submit that if this matter were taken to an unbiased court and the witnesses presented their case - with Scripture only - a jury would wonder why no moon or sliver moon even entered the courthouse. The full moon is the ONLY moon phase mentioned in His Word. From another outside source I’ll quote:
“The belief that the Full Moon is the moon that begins the month is by far the the least popular concept for the New Moon. There is almost universal disagreement and animosity with the concept of the Full Moon being the New Moon, yet ironically, this viewpoint is the only viewpoint with support from the Scriptures.”
Just as the full moon serves it’s Divine purpose when FULL of light, Gen 1:16 And Elohim made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the stars, we too are to function in our FULL capacity, walking in the light…
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light,
Luk 11:36 “If then all your body is enlightened, having no part dark, all shall be enlightened, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light.”
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness,1 but now you are light in the Master. Walk as children of light –
Rom 13:12 The night is far advanced, the day has come near. So let us put off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
1Th 5:5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Senator
Interested? I'm halfway through and my mind is being "blown"! Not enough time to research and ponder it all yet, but...amazing! I'll get back at ya later? Lord wiling. Thanks
Congressman
Great! The first fellows comments (Fred) is the one who challenged me on the sliver. Boy was I eager to show him! It was then I discovered all the support and coverup! Fred is in the video you watched about refining the bride, the pre-war Rolls Royce restorer.
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Senator
Astounding to say the least! He makes a very interesting case upon first reading! Again, I don't have much time now, but did complete first reading. I'm not as acquainted with all the Hebrew and Greek terms, however. I assume Yom Teruah is the Feats of Trumpets that begins the seventh month? for example? So, if he is right, that means Tabernacles, the 15th of the month begins in darkness. Interesting. Possible. Wow! My mind is still blown. I will, Lord willing, read it again tonight after thinking about the implications...and probably ask you some more questions? Very cool challenge. Thanks again, brother! I take it you have accepted his conclusions?
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