The Heresies of Martin Luther

[Off-Grid Organics]

Protestants profess 'Scripture Alone', but practice 'Eisegesis Alone'.

OK, that's funny coming from those who think Peter is the first pope, that dead Mary can be prayed to and intercede, that paying money springs people from purgatory! Hilarious!

[Ivan88]

Heresy in Greek comes from choice, prefer, choose.

Apostle Paul was so accused..."after the way they (Edomites) call heresy, so I worship the Theo of my fathers, believing all things written in the Law and in the prophets."
Acts 24:14

[The Cub]

Please re-read the opening post to this thread before reading the following post.

Are you a 'biblebeliever' or do you belong to the group discussed by Our Lord, Jesus in Mt 15:8-9 ?



The teaching of the Catholic Church about the dissolution of marriage by way of divorce is wrong. Moses allowed divorce.

The reader is reminded that emotion has nothing to do with the truth. We have addressed the folly of eisegesis, previously.

We would add that the Faith is not Burger King --- you can’t have it your way. God really doesn’t care about any opinion of man to the extent that it differs from His Holy Will. God cares about truth and justice, only.:

"And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no man; for you do not regard the position of men, but truly teach the way of God." (Mt 22:16; cf. Jer 7:23; 2 Pt 2; Jn 8:52; 1 Sm 15:22; Sir 46:12; Jn 8:51)

God is one. God is Truth. Truth is not relative. There is not one truth for Joey, another for Sue, another for George, and yet a different one for Jennifer. There are moral absolutes (cf. Mt 19:16-19); we are called to seek the truth (cf. 1 Tm 2:3-4); and we were told to obey the Church. (cf. Mt 18:15-18 )

It is written:

“For I hate divorce, says the Lord the God of Israel…” (Mal 2:16)

“You shall not commit adultery.” (Ex 20:14)

“And behold, one came up to him, saying, ‘Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?’ And he said to him, ‘Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.’” (Mt 19:16-17)

“He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity⁽¹⁾ and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries a divorced woman, commits adultery.” (Mt 19:4-9; cf. Mk 10:2-12; Rom 7:2-3; 1 Cor 7-10-11, 39; Eph 5:31)

"Woe to the rebellious children," says the LORD, "who carry out a plan, but not mine; and who make a league, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin (Is 30:1)

”He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him.” (1 Jn 2:4-5)

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel - not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.” (Gal 1:6-9)


Let’s turn to the teachings of the Catechism (cf. 1 Tm 3:15) on the matter:

CCC 1650 “Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery’ (cf. Mk 10:11-12). the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.”

CCC 2382-6 “The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble (cf. Mt 5:31-32; 19:3-9; Mk 10:9; Lk 16:18; I Cor 7:10-ll.). He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law (cf. Mt 19:7-9). Between the baptized, ‘a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.’ (cf. Canon Law CIC 1141)

The separation [as opposed to divorce] of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. (cf. Canon Law CIC 1151-55) If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself. (cf. St. Basil, Moralia 73, 1: PG 31, 849-852.)

Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.”

Lastly, Jesus stated: “'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'" (Mt 15:8-9)



(1) The Greek word is porneia meaning: harlotry (including adultery and incest). For the details of what is permissible refer to Canon Law 1151-55 (The Holy See); www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib4-cann998-1165_en.html

[The Cub]

Praying to the angels and saints for their intercession with God on our behalf is divination.

Those making this charge are ignorant of the meanings of the words: ‘intercession’ and ‘divination’; and more importantly, the meanings of relevant Scripture.

As they relate to theology: intercession is the praying to God on the behalf of another. In no way does it take away the honor and glory that is due to God, alone. Neither does asking another to intercede with God by praying on your behalf take away the honor and glory due to God. Divination, on the other hand is the practice of attempting to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge by occult or supernatural means. (NB: necromancy is a method of divination through occultic alleged communication with the dead as Saul did in 1 Sm 28:7-20.) Clearly, the two are not close to being synonymous.

We hasten to add and emphasize that the definition of the word ‘pray’ is to ‘offer earnest petition’. It does not mean to ‘worship’. Far too many Protestants do not understand the true meaning of these words resulting in invalid conclusions.

In making this charge, they refer to the following citations from Scripture:
“First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.” (1 Tm 2:1-6) (NB: It is worthy of emphasis that the phrase about Jesus being the only mediator between God and man be read in context, particularly with respect to 1 Tm 2:1 in which St. Paul is begging for intercessory prayer from the Faithful.)

“There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer.” (Dt 18:10-11)

Indeed, there is one mediator between God and man, and that is Christ Jesus. When Adam sinned against God, he broke the covenant between God and man. As a result, he and his descendants were stained with original sin; and were unable to access the kingdom of God. That is to say, that the gates to Heaven were closed to mankind, thereafter.

God so loved the world that He sent his only begotten son, Jesus, to redeem mankind with His incomparable sacrifice on the cross. With the immolation and death of Jesus on the cross, death was conquered, and the gates of Heaven were reopened to mankind. The hanging of Jesus on the cross, suspended between Heaven and earth, was the perfect mediation between God and man. No one else could accomplish this perfect task; and having been performed successfully, there is no need of any additional mediation.

In the words of St. Paul, “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the sprinkling of defiled persons with the blood of goats and bulls and with the ashes of a heifer sanctifies for the purification of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.” (Heb 9:11-15)

Your attention is directed to the account of Jesus’ Transfiguration in St. Matthew’s gospel where Jesus conversed with certain saints of Heaven:
“And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli′jah, talking with him.” (Mt 17:1-3)

As is evident by the forgoing, Jesus spoke with the dead Moses and Elijah. Certainly, Jesus would not engage in necromancy, nor lead us into such evil.

And then, there is David who prayed to the angels of Heaven (NB: prayed not worshipped): “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps 103:20-21)

Tobias called upon (i.e. prayed to) St. Raphael, the archangel:
“The prayer of both was heard in the presence of the glory of the great God. And Raph′ael was sent to heal the two of them: to scale away the white films of Tobit’s eyes; to give Sarah the daughter of Rag′uel in marriage to Tobi′as the son of Tobit, and to bind Asmode′us the evil demon, because Tobi′as was entitled to possess her. … [Later] … Then Tobi′as called Raph′ael and said to him, ‘Brother Azari′as, take a servant and two camels with you and go to Gab′ael at Rages in Media and get the money for me; and bring him to the wedding feast.’” (Tb 3:16-17, 9:1-2)

Additional visitations and discourse between man and angels: Gn 18:1-33; Ex 23:20-23; Nm 22:22; Tb 3:25, 5:5-20, 6:1-22, 7:12, 8:3, 9:1-12, 11:1-8, 12:1-21, Ps 34:7; Is 6:1-7; Dn 5:1-5, 8:16, 9:21, 10:13; Mt 2:13-15, 4:11, 26:53, 28:5; Lk 1:1-80, 2:1-20, 22:43; Jn 20:12; Acts 1:11, 5:19, 12:5-17; Gal 1:8; Heb 3:2, 12:22, 13:1-2; Jude 1:9; Rv 4:1-11, et al.

“But to what angel has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet’? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?” (Heb 1:13-14)

Clearly, we see that praying or conversing with the angels and saints when done properly is not divination.

We would add that the Church teaches that there is need of intercessory prayer. Further, that the Church Militant on earth can benefit not only by praying for one another; but the Church Triumphant in Heaven and the Church Suffering in Purgatory can pray for the Church Militant, as well.

We see several examples of intercessory prayer within Holy Scripture. Consider the following examples:

“I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf … .” (Rom 15:30)

“And so, from the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, to lead a life worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.” (Col 1:9-10)

“Finally, brethren, pray for us… .” (2 Thes 3:1)

“Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” (Jas 5:16)

Also, refer to: Gn 18:23-33, Ex 32:11 and 1 Thes 3:10.

And then, there is this:
“And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.” (Rv 8:3-4)

Clearly, the saints in Heaven are not in need of prayer. Who else would they be praying for if not the Church Militant or the Church Suffering?

[The Cub]

Catholics often pray in vain repetitive prayer.

“But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.” (Mt 6:6-7)

Protestants choose to translate the Greek as ‘vain repetitions’ rather than ‘empty phrases’.

Catholic Answers addresses this charge very well:

“…So was Jesus condemning repetition in prayer?

Let’s take careful note of the qualifier in the sentence, as that adjective makes clear what our Lord is saying: vain repetition or empty phrases. Jesus is not condemning all repetition in prayer; if that were his intention, he would not have needed that qualifier. It would have been much clearer for him to say, ‘Do not heap up repetition in prayer, which is in vain’ or something similar. As it is, he condemned not all repetition, but vain or empty repetition.

But perhaps the clearest window into what our Lord meant by his condemnation of ‘empty phrases’ or ‘vain repetition’ comes in the verses immediately following. Jesus says, ‘Pray then like this’ and proceeds to teach the Our Father. This is clearly an instruction to a standard, non-improvised prayer. If all repetition in prayer is ‘empty’ or ‘in vain,’ then why would Our Lord teach a prayer like this immediately after condemning repetition?

Another reason it would not have made sense for Jesus to condemn all repetition is that repetition in prayer has long been part of Jewish (and later, Christian) practice, both in personal prayer and in communal, liturgical prayer.

We see many examples of this throughout Sacred Scripture, where repetitious prayer is not only acknowledged, but lauded. In the Torah, the Lord commanded the people of Israel to repeatedly recite the ‘sh’mah’ prayer: ‘Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise’ (Dt 6:4-7).

We also read of the vision of Isaiah in which the seraphim repeatedly chant the prayer ‘holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts’ (Is 6:3). Psalm 136 repeats the phrase ‘for his steadfast love endures forever’ twenty-six times in twenty-six verses. Yet another example, from the book of Daniel, comes when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are in the furnace facing execution, and they pray thirty-one times, ‘Bless the Lord . . . sing praise to him and highly exalt him forever’ (Dn 3:35-6.

We have several instances in the Gospels of Jesus himself praying repetitively or applauding those who do. One example comes in the Garden of Gethsemane, during Our Lord’s agony on the night he was betrayed. We read that Jesus prayed to the Father, making the same request, and continuing to present his petition in prayer: ‘So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words’ (Mt 26:44).

In the Gospel of Luke, we find Jesus teaching about the importance of persistence in prayer. ‘And I tell you, Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knows it will be opened.’. (Lk 11:9-10).

Take another example, a variation on the same theme: the parable of the persistent widow and the unjust judge (Lk 18:3-9). The widow persists in her request, confident that her persistence will eventually bring the judge around, and it does. In elucidating the parable, Jesus says God will answer those who cry to him day or night—in other words, persistence in prayer, repeatedly making the same request.

In the book of Revelation, the angels chant ‘day and night.’ ‘They never cease to sing’ the same phrase, and it is one familiar to Catholics: ‘holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!’ (Rv 4:. …” ^(a)

We repeat: Jesus prayed repetitively and commended those who do.


(a) Paul Senz, It’s not vain to repeat your prayers; March 29, 2021; (Catholic Answers); www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/its-not-vain-to-repeat-your-prayers

[Off-Grid Organics]

Catholics often pray in vain repetitive prayer.

All for naught if your foundation is askew:

Pro 28:9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer shall be abomination.

[Ivan88]

"Pro 28:9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer be/is abomination."
Every 'shall' has been added; T'was not there originally; Otherwise Proverbs 28:9 is correct.

Thanks, Off Grid Organics for posting that warning from Proverbs 28:9

Nothing happens in the past; And nothing happens in the future; Everything happens in the present.

Matthew 6:7 does not contain 'vain' originally.

[The Cub]

Jesus founded a Church…..not a book.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. (DRV Mt 16:15-19)

Further, any bible believer should be able to see that He founded ONE CHURCH …….i.e. IT, in the citation above.

IT

Not 47,000+ each heading in different directions, as no two can agree on doctrine. And that does not include the self-anointed ‘popes’ and their ‘churches of one’. (cf. 2 Pt 2)

Ignoring the citation above, does not make it any less true. Refer to the opening post of this thread.

On judgement day, we will be judged according to God’s rules, not mans’.


Additionally, Jesus promised to guide His Church from above in respect of doctrinal matters.

To the Apostles (the first Catholic Bishops) he said: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Lk 10:16).

“Then the disciples came and said to him, ‘Why do you speak to them in parables?’ And he answered them, ‘To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.’” (Mt 13:10-11)

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples and the Blessed Virgin Mary (cf. Acts 2:1-3; 14). Note that the Holy Spirit did not descend upon the Faithful in general. In doctrinal matters the Holy Spirit works through the Apostles (the first bishops of the Catholic Church) and their successor bishops (cf. Jn 14:16, 26; Lk 10:16).


Further, Jesus told us to obey HIS Church:
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...19#post2868919


As Scripture Alone is your rule, I challenge any dissenting ‘bible believer’ to produce an applicable biblical citation – considered in context and together with an adequate supportive apologetic discussion indicating and supporting God authorizing any man to start his own ‘church’. [Simply posting some irrational and unrelated citation from the KJV Book, or some unsupported assertion doesn’t do it.]

As is clearly stated in Scripture, and discussed in detail further at the following link, Rv 18:4-5 does not do it. Nor does any man get to start his own ‘church’ if he identifies anything within, or about, the Catholic and Apostolic Church that he doe not like.
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...70#post2869370



Never, has God granted any authority to any man to establish any “church” at any time or under any circumstances.

[Off-Grid Organics]

Jesus founded a Church

Thankfully His assembly wasn't founded on sun-worship and idolatry. The whoredoms of Rome came much later than His true assembly -

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
Act 7:38 This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel that spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living oracles to give unto us:

[Ivan88]

Yes, and that church in the wilderness winnowed out the chaff.
Nowadays the many & perhaps most churches are breeding & grooming chaff; As well as cheering the destruction of Wheat & Barley