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Thread: "Pffft. I esteemeth any day I wanteth" Rom 14:5

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    Default "Pffft. I esteemeth any day I wanteth" Rom 14:5

    In a fellows support of celebrating the pagan solstice event (x-mess) of last week, I was offered correction for my opposing argument and was advised to “Take a study of Romans 14 someday. Perhaps you missed it.” Of course, the sole verse he intended to correct me with was a pretty famous go-to verse for rejecting Sabbaths as well.

    “One indeed esteemeth one day above another, another esteemeth every day alike. Let each one be completely persuaded in his own mind” Rom 14:5

    Credit him with ingenuity at least. I’d never heard it used to support keeping pagan festivals. Certainly sinning of that sort would not fall under “doubtful disputations” in the first verse of the chapter. But yeah, let’s “take a study” and see if we “missed it”. I kinda like to get a contextual idea for the subject being discussed, so I isolated some key words (22 of them!) from the verses found in chapter 14: eat, eats -v.2 eats, eat, eat, eats -v.3 eats, eats, eat, eat -v.6 common, common, common -v.14 food, food -v.15 eating, drinking -v.17 food, clean, eats -v.20 eat, drink -v.21

    OK, I think we may have ‘somehow stumbled’ upon the theme for the topic of the entire chapter. Was that my stomach growling too? 23rd witness! Wolves are famous for grabbing one verse, take it out of context, and make it say what you want it to say to suit personal preference. If they have a wicked spirit within, the name of the demon would be “eisegesis” - reading into the text with a preconceived notion or bias. This means coming to the Scripture with a skewed cultural lens that didn’t exist during the time the text was written. It’s always used to twist Scripture to assert a certain belief. The alpha wolves, the famous churchian commentators, love to leap on an out of context verse such as 14:5 and devour it, along with the gullible reader -

    >“Christ the true sabbath and rest is come; and therefore, being firmly persuaded there is no more holiness in days” -Gills

    >“difference in days under the Old Testament was now ceased” -Poole

    >“When the Messiah came, the passover, the feast of tabernacles, and the other special festivals of the Jews, of course vanished” -Barnes

    >“days appointed by Moses has now ceased” -Benson

    They do the exact same thing with Col 2:16, using that as a back-up referral verse to their above heresy. The alpha wolves completely ignore what had solidly been established in the book of Romans. How do people let them get away with their lawlessness?? How are so many so easily deceived? Just a FEW examples from that letter -

    “For not the hearers of the TORAH are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the DOERS of the Torah shall be DECLARED RIGHT.” Rom 2:13

    “Do we then NULLIFY the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, WE ESTABLISH the Torah.” Rom 3:31

    ”...the mind of the FLESH is enmity towards Elohim, for IT DOES NOT subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able...” Rom 8:7

    Anything in Romans 14 - or anywhere else, for that matter - cannot contradict or override Torah. That’s apostasy. Only wolves or a beast system would try to do that (Dan 7:25). Some lean that the chapter deals with certain, special fast days, traditionally 2nd and 5th day of the week. Others lean towards Paul giving the OK to eat meat that was sacrificed to idols. Some say it deals with both issues. I can’t roll with idol meat as it defies other witnesses on the matter (Rev 2:14, 20 Acts 15:29, 21:25). Maybe it’s more monkeyed text. You can come to your own conclusion.

    It’s a non-issue for me, probably for you too, as we know we can fast any time we want, nor do I eat meat sacrificed to any idols, ‘halal’ and such. The bottom line is that it most certainly has NOTHING to do with Sabbaths, engaging pagan festival days, or eating unclean. The point is those damn wolves again. These famous $10 word commentators have compiled voluminous works that the hireling wolves feed on and spread to their pew sitters. They continually profane YHUH (Ez 22:26) and do violence to His set-apart matters. They defile the very earth (Is 24:5).

    “But evil men and seducers (impostors) shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But continue in the things which you have learned and have been assured of (Ps 119:44), knowing of whom you have learned them; And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures (Torah), which are able to make you wise unto yeshu`ah through faith which is in Yahusha Ha’Mashiach. ALL Scripture is given by the Ruach Elohiym, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Elohiym may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2Ti 3:13-17

    Be an exegete. Use the words of the text in Scripture, through the lens of their entire ORIGINAL context to determine their intent. Study the meaning of the passage that was intended for a specific audience. Heed the warning concerning Paul’s letters and reading them with a Torahless mindset (2 Pet 3:17).

    Expose the wolves, don’t become their meal!
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



  2. #2
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    Excellent! Rather we Establish the Torah! Regarding Sabbath Days, that our Father has set, which are holy and set apart, Paul would not be establishing the Torah if he taught anything other than keeping them holy. I have suspected he was talking about "birthdays" for a long time. Some consider their own birthdays 'special' and others do not...Sometimes, bad things happened on 'birthdays' mentioned in scripture. John lost his head on Herod's. Job was very concerned that his own children would be sinning when they gathered together to celebrate their own, presumably, so he offered sacrifices on their behalf and interceded for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    I have suspected he was talking about "birthdays" for a long time.
    Yeah, that also would ignore the actual context of the chapter. I don't celebrate b-days either, funny that folks sometimes expect a 'happy birthday' from us, I just say 'congrats, you made it another year on your journey!'
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Yeah, that also would ignore the actual context of the chapter. I don't celebrate b-days either, funny that folks sometimes expect a 'happy birthday' from us, I just say 'congrats, you made it another year on your journey!'
    So, you've concluded he was talking about fasting days? Interesting. Thanks. I had never heard that and it does make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    So, you've concluded he was talking about fasting days? Interesting. Thanks. I had never heard that and it does make sense.
    Yes as the very next verse says Rom 14:6 He that regards the day, regards it unto Yahuah; and he that regards not the day, to Yahuah he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to Yahuah, for he gives Elohiym thanks; and he that eats not, to Yahuah he eats not, and gives Elohiym thanks.

    Judaism had traditional fast days they had incorporated in violation of Dt 4:2. This doesn't say which days, but...Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week...
    "The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6

    Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Yes as the very next verse says Rom 14:6 He that regards the day, regards it unto Yahuah; and he that regards not the day, to Yahuah he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to Yahuah, for he gives Elohiym thanks; and he that eats not, to Yahuah he eats not, and gives Elohiym thanks.

    Judaism had traditional fast days they had incorporated in violation of Dt 4:2. This doesn't say which days, but...Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week...
    Well, Thanks for the lesson! I appreciate learning. So much to learn, but it is a wonderful journey! So they were "commanding" fast days? Interesting. Thanks again.

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    Chapter 14 of Romans is a burden to read and ends with "...he that doubteth is damned if he eat..... whatever is not of Faith is sin."
    Comrad Paul must have loved confusing folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    In a fellows support of celebrating the pagan solstice event (x-mess) of last week, I was offered correction for my opposing argument and was advised to “Take a study of Romans 14 someday. Perhaps you missed it.” Of course, the sole verse he intended to correct me with was a pretty famous go-to verse for rejecting Sabbaths as well.

    “One indeed esteemeth one day above another, another esteemeth every day alike. Let each one be completely persuaded in his own mind” Rom 14:5

    Credit him with ingenuity at least. I’d never heard it used to support keeping pagan festivals. Certainly sinning of that sort would not fall under “doubtful disputations” in the first verse of the chapter. But yeah, let’s “take a study” and see if we “missed it”. I kinda like to get a contextual idea for the subject being discussed, so I isolated some key words (22 of them!) from the verses found in chapter 14: eat, eats -v.2 eats, eat, eat, eats -v.3 eats, eats, eat, eat -v.6 common, common, common -v.14 food, food -v.15 eating, drinking -v.17 food, clean, eats -v.20 eat, drink -v.21

    OK, I think we may have ‘somehow stumbled’ upon the theme for the topic of the entire chapter. Was that my stomach growling too? 23rd witness! Wolves are famous for grabbing one verse, take it out of context, and make it say what you want it to say to suit personal preference. If they have a wicked spirit within, the name of the demon would be “eisegesis” - reading into the text with a preconceived notion or bias. This means coming to the Scripture with a skewed cultural lens that didn’t exist during the time the text was written. It’s always used to twist Scripture to assert a certain belief. The alpha wolves, the famous churchian commentators, love to leap on an out of context verse such as 14:5 and devour it, along with the gullible reader -

    >“Christ the true sabbath and rest is come; and therefore, being firmly persuaded there is no more holiness in days” -Gills

    >“difference in days under the Old Testament was now ceased” -Poole

    >“When the Messiah came, the passover, the feast of tabernacles, and the other special festivals of the Jews, of course vanished” -Barnes

    >“days appointed by Moses has now ceased” -Benson

    They do the exact same thing with Col 2:16, using that as a back-up referral verse to their above heresy. The alpha wolves completely ignore what had solidly been established in the book of Romans. How do people let them get away with their lawlessness?? How are so many so easily deceived? Just a FEW examples from that letter -

    “For not the hearers of the TORAH are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the DOERS of the Torah shall be DECLARED RIGHT.” Rom 2:13

    “Do we then NULLIFY the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, WE ESTABLISH the Torah.” Rom 3:31

    ”...the mind of the FLESH is enmity towards Elohim, for IT DOES NOT subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able...” Rom 8:7

    Anything in Romans 14 - or anywhere else, for that matter - cannot contradict or override Torah. That’s apostasy. Only wolves or a beast system would try to do that (Dan 7:25). Some lean that the chapter deals with certain, special fast days, traditionally 2nd and 5th day of the week. Others lean towards Paul giving the OK to eat meat that was sacrificed to idols. Some say it deals with both issues. I can’t roll with idol meat as it defies other witnesses on the matter (Rev 2:14, 20 Acts 15:29, 21:25). Maybe it’s more monkeyed text. You can come to your own conclusion.

    It’s a non-issue for me, probably for you too, as we know we can fast any time we want, nor do I eat meat sacrificed to any idols, ‘halal’ and such. The bottom line is that it most certainly has NOTHING to do with Sabbaths, engaging pagan festival days, or eating unclean. The point is those damn wolves again. These famous $10 word commentators have compiled voluminous works that the hireling wolves feed on and spread to their pew sitters. They continually profane YHUH (Ez 22:26) and do violence to His set-apart matters. They defile the very earth (Is 24:5).

    “But evil men and seducers (impostors) shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But continue in the things which you have learned and have been assured of (Ps 119:44), knowing of whom you have learned them; And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures (Torah), which are able to make you wise unto yeshu`ah through faith which is in Yahusha Ha’Mashiach. ALL Scripture is given by the Ruach Elohiym, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Elohiym may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2Ti 3:13-17

    Be an exegete. Use the words of the text in Scripture, through the lens of their entire ORIGINAL context to determine their intent. Study the meaning of the passage that was intended for a specific audience. Heed the warning concerning Paul’s letters and reading them with a Torahless mindset (2 Pet 3:17).

    Expose the wolves, don’t become their meal!
    This is so good, AND I got to read it again this morning! Thank you Father!

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