H1N1 experience... interesting herbal discovery and REMEDIES!

[Summerthyme]

Oh, boy... this is where I have a BIG problem with the tincture. Most folks figure the effective dose for adults is 1 tablespoon, so, if you figure the "average" adult at 150# (obviously screwy, but that's what is used for Rx meds), the kids would get 1/3 of that (1 tsp) morning and night.

I'm really not sure how 1 tsp of high proof vodka is going to affect a kid! Probably not much... but do try it "at home" first!

Dilute it well, obviously- add to juice or any stronger flavored drink. You can supposedly "evaporate" some of the alcohol off by adding to a hot drink, but there are mixed reports about whether or not heat damages the medicinal value of the elderberry.

Because I use the syrup, I just give kids (above toddler age/size) the adult dose and don't have any problems with it.

Summerthyme

[Son of George]

For over 30 years now I have been eating Bee Pollen. My wife has used for almost as long and my kids have used it from before birth. We almost never get sick and when we do it lasts half the time, or less, than it does in others.

My kids have never had an antibiotic. They have never had an ear infection, allergies, or sinus problems.

If you decide to start eating Bee Pollen remember it is food and not a magic pill. You will get benifit right away but you need to take it for 6 - 12 months to rebuild your body. Try an buy it from a local bee keeper. Local pollen helps fights allergies and will cost less than getting it online. I buy 6 pounds at a time, local, for $7.00 per pound. A pound lasts, my family of four, about a month.

Here is a site with some good info.
http://www.envirobee.com/beepollen.htm

I have not had the flu for a very, very, long time and have not had a flu shot in over 15 years. I put my trust in the Lord. The Lord made the bee and the bee makes the Honey Bee Pollen.

[onbluemountain]

Anyone have info on lomatium. I have read the Washoe Indians in Nevada took this during the 1918 pandemic & all survived, while other tribes had massive deaths. I have aquired some tincture, but cannot find any info about combining it with the elderberry as part of a safe treatment.Thanks so much for any help OB

[Tom McDowell]

We've found it to be a very effective and synergistic combination.

Lomatium has somewhat of a Garlic type effect. After ingesting it tends to permeate the respiratory system. Nearly everyone I know who's used it reports having it on ones breath for quite a while - similar to Garlic, It may be possible, Lomatium combined with other botanical agents may aid the delivery of the Elderberry into the respiratory system.

In respect to the Alcohol & Lomatium, in our case it's unavoidable, and warranted. Aside from needed for extraction, our manufacturer has found by utilizing his processing methods with an Alcohol base there are less instances of a skin rash. This rash usually appears in a small number of people, and in most cases it will only appear once, as long as there's a few days in between doses. This is arguably one best reasons to try out your preps before hand.

In all of our tinctures and formulas the alcohol content is near 50%. We find the best way to avoid issues, other than to treat it as a medicinal, not recreational substance, is to utilize with herbal teas. Hot water will dissipate quite a bit of the alcohol content. Left standing eventually nearly all the alcohol will dissipate over a short period of time.

We also find adding the tinctures to teas can increase their efficacy.

Alcohol is also good for delivery into the body for many botanical preparations and compounds. The tried and true method of droppers under the tongue, grin and bear it is the fastest way to move the tincture into the systems of the body.

One Milliliter (or dropper) is just shy of 1/5 th of a teaspoon. Since our preparations are much higher in potency (Herb to extract 1:1) the need per serving is mush less, 1 milliliter to one hundred pounds, 3x daily. Not nearly a Tablespoon per dose.

With Children in mind, many formulations (nearly all) are very distasteful. Same response from grownups too for that matter. Masking the preparation a beverage or meal, is about the only way to overcome the issue for the finicky.

Juice with young children, orange in particular is very effective. To avoid alcohol, mixtures may be prepared prior in warm water, then later mixed with a beverage for the later in the day - administration.

Hope this was helpful.

Thanks,

Tom

[onbluemountain]

Tom thank-you so much for all the wonderfull info! You mentioned a supplier, may I ask who that is? I ordered from Vitacost, the manufacturer is NATURES ANSWER & it is alcohol free, seems I have made the wrong choice. Thank-you again for your time. OB

[LC]

Thanks Tom. Very helpful.

LC

[jazzy]

what a wonderful thread, i have been helped by everyone here, i just wanted to say thanks and especially to summerthyme for posting her experience (and her DHs too). ive been busy printing off everything to make sure i have hard copy cause i dont trust my old brain cells much anymore.

i was very concerned with my DH being out in elk camp from sept to nov, each week bringing in a new batch of strangers who might be carrying whatever, every year he would catch something at least once from hunters coming in coughing, sneezing, hacking.

this year i armed him well and packed a box of things to take and this year he is really paying attention and promised to dutifully follow every direction so he doesnt get sick.

sorry to go off topic, but i wanted to say thanks.

jazzy

[Krayola]

pitbull, here's HER recipe with variations> EVERYBODY copy and save this!

Elderberry Syrup Recipe

7 cups elderberry juice
8 ¾ cups honey
3 cups 80 proof vodka


(if you're starting with dried berries, to get "juice", put 1 cup of berries in a quart jar and pour 2 cups of boiling water over them. If they soak it up, add a bit more. Stash in the fridge or a cool, dark place for 24-48 hours.Then strain, and squeeze every bit of liquid you can out- you can twist the berries in a muslin towel and get most of it. You'll need three "jars" of the stuff to get enough for 7 cups. )



Warm the elderberry juice to “hot, but not boiling” temp… between 150° and 180°F should be plenty. Stir in the honey and stir until it’s completely dissolved and blended.

Remove from the heat, and stir in the vodka.

Pour into sterile jars or bottles (sterilize them by boiling for 5-10 minutes in boiling water, then let drip dry upside down until filling)

Cap and LABEL. Store in a cool DARK place (or bottle in dark brown glass)

Standard dose for adults would be:

Prophylaxis (prevention) 1 tablespoon (15 mls, or 1/2 ounce) 2x a day. If there is active flu in your office or family, double that, or take more often.

Treatment: 1-2 tablespoons every 3-4 hours

Children under 12: half the adult dose

Toddlers and infants: Talk to your doctor! But, lacking that, 1 tsp at similar intervals to the adult dose should be adequate.

There is NO way to overdose on this! Put it in juice, jello, pour it over ice cream- any way you can get the kids to take it is fine.

Alternatives:
If you do not want to use any alcohol in the syrup, use
7 cups elderberry juice
14 cups honey

Proceed as above, ignoring the reference to the vodka.

If you don’t want to use honey (probably best to NOT use it for babies under 1 year)


7 cups elderberry juice
11 ½ cups sugar

Stir until the sugar is dissolved in the hot juice, then bottle.

I have a question about the elderberry syrup recipe. I have assembled all my ingredients and I need to go ahead and make some syrup (this is my first time).

I wanted to make the one with vodka but it occurred to me today that this may not be a good idea since I am currently trying to conceive and I don't think you are supposed to consume alcohol when you are pregnant. Or if you can, I don't know what the safe amount would be. So if I end up getting pregnant in the future, I should probably stay away from the vodka.

So I figured I would make the one with just honey and elderberry juice. But I got to looking at the recipes and noticed that the one with vodka has a yield of 18.75 cups and the one with just honey yields 21 cups.

I plan on taking 2 tablespoons (1 oz.) every day as a preventative.

1 cup = 8 oz therefore:

18.75 cups = 150 oz (150 doses)
21 cups = 168 oz (168 doses)

Summerthyme, I am wondering if the honey recipe is less potent than the vodka recipe. Each recipe calls for the same amount of elderberry juice yet the vodka recipe produces fewer doses. So I am wondering if a dose of the vodka recipe is more potent than the honey recipe? Is the elderberry more diluted in the honey version?

[Summerthyme]

Krayola... first, the amount of ETOH (alcohol) in a dose of syrup with the vodka is TINY... about 2.5 cc (half a teaspoon). My DD is pregnant, and her doctor has told her she's absolutely fine taking it... YMMV, of course.

As far as the potency, the recommended doses (1/2 ounce) is probably overkill, so you should be safe with either one.

I suspect you could get away with taking a lower dose and still get effective medicine. The biggest problem is we don't have any "official" studies (that I've been able to find, anyway) which actually show what dose works in vivo.

Since it's not terribly expensive to make your own, I figure erring on the side of caution (especially with this particularly nasty virus) is better. What I can say is that we've discovered that dosing schedule is maybe more important than dose amount- skipping a dose is NOT advised if you are ill. BTDT... it wasn't fun. It was rather amazing at how clearly I could feel the virus "roaring back" after I had it knocked down very nicely. It obviously has something to do with keeping blood levels reasonably high- just like many antibiotics which require multiple doses per day.

If anyone does get sick, and is using elderberry as their main antiviral, I think it's important to take it every 4 hours around the clock... set an alarm clock if you have to, to avoid a 6-8 hour gap which gives the virus a chance to start reproducing again.

Summerthyme

[Krayola]

Krayola... first, the amount of ETOH (alcohol) in a dose of syrup with the vodka is TINY... about 2.5 cc (half a teaspoon). My DD is pregnant, and her doctor has told her she's absolutely fine taking it... YMMV, of course.

Summerthyme, thank you so much for your quick response to my question.
You're contributions on this subject are truly invaluable!

I hope you don't mind if I try to clarify what you were saying above. When the doctor told your dd that it was OK to take the syrup, do you happen to know if this was just in the context of taking the preventative dose (2 tbsp per day) or did the doctor also mean that it was OK to take the treatment dose (2 tbsp every 4 hours)?