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  #11  
Old 09-21-2011, 12:48 AM
momof23goats momof23goats is offline
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panacur or Ivomec, for get about a good natural wormer, no such thing. i have had goats along time, and i have seen about all the natural stuff.usually a goat will get full of worms or parasites and die.
they do need to be wormed good about every 3 to 4 months. they pick them up out of the grass soil, many places. just go ahead and worm them.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2011, 01:40 AM
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ChristieAcres ChristieAcres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momof23goats View Post
panacur or Ivomec, for get about a good natural wormer, no such thing. i have had goats along time, and i have seen about all the natural stuff.usually a goat will get full of worms or parasites and die.
they do need to be wormed good about every 3 to 4 months. they pick them up out of the grass soil, many places. just go ahead and worm them.
There are natural GARLIC products being sold for de-worming goats, sheep, pigs, etc... They have been studied and proven to be effective. Also, it has long been known Rosemary also is a natural de-wormer. It is important to feed high enough concentrations. I just opted to feed RAW Garlic Cloves to our piglets. The studies done have shown it to be highly effective. Also, one farm is using DE, along with Garlic, and also Rosemary. They were very pleased to get wonderful results. I have read nothing online about any one feeding RAW Garlic, DE, Rosemary, and other fresh herbs, experiencing this:

Quote:
usually a goat will get full of worms or parasites and die.
There are plenty of products on the market, claiming to be natural, also effective, that may not be worth the label printed on the products. I woudl believe these to fit your statement above. However, I wouldn't believe it of livestock fed RAW Garlic, DE, Rosemary, and other fresh herbs, unless I was to read a case study. That said, I do respect your opinion is based on your experiences, and wouldn't be surprised if the treatments were bad products.

For any one considering natural instead of chemical options for treating your livestock, for de-worming, or any other treatment:

Do your homework! It is that simple as there is a lot of information out there at your disposal online, lots of studies, too. In addition, try to find an organic farmer closer to you, who is utilizing these natural methods, also recommending them. Go visit them, get input directly from the source of someone who is successfully administering natural treatments.

After we butcher our pigs, late Nov, early Dec, I will post the results. As of now, our piglets are happy, healthy, and growing at a rapid pace. I recently had a friend come over, inspect them, and give me her opinion (has raised pigs for 6 years). She was very impressed by their size and leanness. They are free ranging, eating fermented foods/grains, and get fresh RAW Garlic almost daily. I am growing my own Rosemary, now can start clipping that, so in their feed it goes. DE will be added to their diet, as well.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2011, 09:56 AM
Faroe Faroe is offline
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Traditionally, goats have enjoyed a more free range situation than our backyards, and may have had access to naturally deworming forage. When you look at pictures of goats in, maybe say Africa, the herds may be large, but there is a lot of space, and the people move seasonally.

I think there is a place for a chemical dewormer with the suburban goat. Nevertheless, I can't grow Ivermectin (spell?), and I don't know the shelf life. Eventually, we may be stuck with what ever we can grow.

My neighbor was complaining two days ago that he can't get one of his does to breed. My suspicion is worms. This is the same guy who gave me two lovely rabbits that "wouldn't breed." His pens are too small, and he doesn't rotate to fresh ground. I doubt he worms. Nice guy, but his place needs a complete overhall. Depending on what he can tell me about the doe's CAE status, I might see if he wants to get rid of her. His goats come from a local breeder who keeps pure bred Nigerian dwarfs, and charges about a $100 for a doe. I can use the money I save to get the goat to a vet and have a good deworming.

All the best,
Faroe
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2011, 01:57 PM
LMonty LMonty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristieAcres View Post
There are natural GARLIC products being sold for de-worming goats, sheep, pigs, etc... They have been studied and proven to be effective. Also, it has long been known Rosemary also is a natural de-wormer. It is important to feed high enough concentrations. I just opted to feed RAW Garlic Cloves to our piglets. The studies done have shown it to be highly effective. Also, one farm is using DE, along with Garlic, and also Rosemary. They were very pleased to get wonderful results. I have read nothing online about any one feeding RAW Garlic, DE, Rosemary, and other fresh herbs, experiencing this:



There are plenty of products on the market, claiming to be natural, also effective, that may not be worth the label printed on the products. I woudl believe these to fit your statement above. However, I wouldn't believe it of livestock fed RAW Garlic, DE, Rosemary, and other fresh herbs, unless I was to read a case study. That said, I do respect your opinion is based on your experiences, and wouldn't be surprised if the treatments were bad products.

For any one considering natural instead of chemical options for treating your livestock, for de-worming, or any other treatment:

Do your homework! It is that simple as there is a lot of information out there at your disposal online, lots of studies, too. In addition, try to find an organic farmer closer to you, who is utilizing these natural methods, also recommending them. Go visit them, get input directly from the source of someone who is successfully administering natural treatments.

After we butcher our pigs, late Nov, early Dec, I will post the results. As of now, our piglets are happy, healthy, and growing at a rapid pace. I recently had a friend come over, inspect them, and give me her opinion (has raised pigs for 6 years). She was very impressed by their size and leanness. They are free ranging, eating fermented foods/grains, and get fresh RAW Garlic almost daily. I am growing my own Rosemary, now can start clipping that, so in their feed it goes. DE will be added to their diet, as well.
i have done my homework, for my dairy goat herd in my conditions.
for me, chemical worming works, non chemical methods dont.

the only way to tell if it works for you-without killing animals, since many wont show significant signs until they drop dead- is to trial your product. then 10 days to 2 weeks later, (timing matters) take a sample of fresh stool to your vet and get a fecal egg count done. repeat thru the season- different worms flourish under different times and weather patterns and climates. a rainy spring or fall may have totally different parasite pressures than a normal or dry one. no matter what you think garlic, serratia or walnut hulls is doing inside that goat- there is NO WAY to actually know unless you do fecal tests.

in the wild, goats outrun their parasites- they are always moving. fields and browse areas clear of eggs before they are used again. but homesteading and dairying tend not to create those conditions for many of us, which in my philosophy means we accept the responsibility of handling the downsides of this unnnatural condition we have create.

DE has been tested by many owners- with little to no effect (besides dead goats). it does have some value for external parasites and for the minerals it releases in the gut, and for keeping stored grain less likely to be damaged by worms.

serratia has some effect on decreasing parasites, some of the other natural herbs do too. its believed to be the tannin in serratia, but tannin tends to make any forage less palatable, so unless they develop a taste for it some animals (esp picky goats) may refuse to eat enough, which is worth watching for. it is an excellent choice to incorporate into your parasite plan. but to rely on it alone, especially without testing and monitoring, can be fatal for your critters.

i do wish that was close enough to buy some. if i was going to use it, i would probably trial incorporating it into my feeding plan in bursts, say over a week. mix half with my regular grass/legume hay for a couple of ays, them for 4 or 5 days try the serratia alone. then fecal. watching carefully the individual goats are getting enough forage.

but unless you test, for any worming program, natural/mixed or chemical- you are playing russian roulette with your goats guts and lives. and what works for me on my farm, my own microclimate and biosphere so to speak, with the genetics of both hosts and parasites here, may NOT work for others. but the treat/test method is universal. without it you are just guessing. its one of the most important methods for herd health in any species we husband.
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  #15  
Old 09-21-2011, 03:12 PM
goatlady goatlady is offline
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100+ thumbs up Laura.
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  #16  
Old 09-21-2011, 03:50 PM
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For those who are considering "natural methods," there are plenty of farmers experiencing great results, testing, case studies, etc... Those who wish to stick to chemical methods, of course, that is your prerogative and choice. Those who don't want to, do have effective natural methods to utilize. It is just important to know and utilize the proper methods and locally meet with those successfully using them. Funny thing is, before chemical de-wormers were discovered, natural methods were actually effectively being used. There are right and wrong ways, of course, as with all treatments.

I have local sources who for YEARS used natural methods successfully, so who should I trust? A stranger on the net, or someone I know personally (?!). Same flip of the coin, so we are all free to choose. I won't knock your choice to use chemicals, as you are finding that effective and wish to continue. I also garden organically and have experienced great results, raised bed gardening, ditto. Those who prefer to use chemicals, due to it working for them, feel free. I'll sure let you know if/when our healthy pigs keel over.

When SHTF, it is important to be prepared. As long as all my natural methods work , I will have plenty of homegrown Garlic, Rosemary, and will be stocked up on DE. It would be wise to stock up on chemical dewormers, if that is what you use...

The only other thing I will say is that natural methods cannot simply be relied upon by themselves (i.e. ONLY Garlic, or ONLY Rosemary, or ONLY DE, etc...), but need to be used in proper amounts/combinations, and it is important to check with a Vet, and of course, test! DE is NOT effective by itself, but has to be used as just part of the natural program.

There is so much information out there, just google away! Here is one that was interesting:

http://www.garlicbarrier.com/2003_SARE_Report.html

"Garlic is known to contain 28 active antibacterial compounds"

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