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  #21  
Old 01-12-2012, 12:02 PM
PatrickHenry2 PatrickHenry2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tygerkittn View Post
It only takes a second to go from non believer to believer, though.
Very True

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Originally Posted by tygerkittn View Post
I believe prayer is the most powerful force we have access to while on this earth. It can heal the sick and save the non-believer.
Far be it for me to downplay the power of prayers...but I am sorry, prayers alone cannot save the non-believer.

In the scripture I placed above the key action phrase is "I live by faith in the Son of God" and you can pray all you want and God can be pulling for someone but if they dont come to faith they are not saved, are not going to Heaven. Prayers could help aid that for sure but that person, on thier own, has to come to faith, you cant do it for them.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Wiskey Reb Wiskey Reb is offline
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I haven't made mention till now, but I just lost my sister to suicide a month ago. Let's suffice to say that her death was instantaneous. It's been torture. Although there is talk of a conversion many years ago, there has been no real evidence of her having faith in Christ. Some of the family is choosing to embrace the best of the possibilities, I suppose that is just their way of handling things.

I've really spent some time thinking and praying about this issue. I just can't personally see how things will go well for my sister. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but how does one repent of that act? How does one ask forgiveness? Yes, there is the possibility that in her torment she asked for forgiveness in advance of her act, but that is speculative at best.

I know two things right now. One is that I'll never have an answer to this question that brings comfort. Two is that there is and will never be any comfort in the void that she left behind. There is only a hole that noone else can fill.

Sometimes in this life we just have to embrace the pain, give thanks in all things, and keep walking.

A quote of Robert E Lee comes to mind. It goes somethig like this. "The loss of those we care about so dearly does a service to us in that it loosens the chains that bind us to this realm and endears us to that which is yet to come."
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Besides, Sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, .... Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable. And let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come!" Patrick Henry
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Pastor Guest Pastor Guest is offline
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Read Hebrews Chapter 11. In this chapter you have what some people call the "faith's hall of fame". Notice that
in this chapter you will see that Samson is listed right along with Abraham and other "heroes of the faith". As you
know, Samson killed himself after being blinded and tormented by the Philistines.

I believe this is another example of the fact that salvation is by grace through faith.
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:42 PM
Wiskey Reb Wiskey Reb is offline
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Originally Posted by Pastor Guest View Post
Read Hebrews Chapter 11. In this chapter you have what some people call the "faith's hall of fame". Notice that
in this chapter you will see that Samson is listed right along with Abraham and other "heroes of the faith". As you
know, Samson killed himself after being blinded and tormented by the Philistines.

I believe this is another example of the fact that salvation is by grace through faith.
Samson willingly sacrificed his own life to take out the Philistine aristocracy, asking God to take his life along with his enemies, not out of despair. Quite a different scenario than someone just being bummed with life and deciding it was a good day to end it.

The equivalent for Samson would have been to take his own life while still in his prison cell.
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Besides, Sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, .... Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable. And let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come!" Patrick Henry
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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jimmythebee jimmythebee is offline
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Originally Posted by poppy View Post
The unforgivable sin is not murder, which is what you are doing when you kill someone. In killing yourself, you are still killing one of God's children. For someone to do that while in a sound mind would put them in a perilous situation IMO. However, God is totally fair and He is the only One that knows our heart and mind. I am sure He understands when someone is pushed over the mental brink by pain and anguish. Has anyone of sound mind ever killed himself? I really doubt it.

a wise answer
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23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24"You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.…

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  #26  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:19 AM
Wiskey Reb Wiskey Reb is offline
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The question can be rightly asked as to whether anyone who commits any murder is of sound mind. To put it bluntly, That kind of crazy takes hold of anyone who seeks to kill someone unjustly. Most people who choose to take their own lives don't do so rashly in an instant. Rather, it is a considered, deliberate act, usually decided over a period of time, like premeditated murder. Granted, one may come to a rash moment and seek to carry the plan out, but not before deciding upon the course of action in advance and at least on some level coming to a point of embracing the idea.

This stuff has been a constant companion for me for a month. And I know that some, as with my sister, have chronic pain, anxiety, etc. None the less, it all comes down to a rationalization and a decision.

One can never discover whether or not someone else's decision for suicide came from a mind of ignorance/insanity or from calculated disobedience to God resulting in depravity, like Romans describes. It is a closed, dark closet. And it will remain a nagging, festering welt on ones soul. It sucks, but it's the truth. It would be self dillusion to clamor for comfort where there is none to be had. I need the truth, not a placebo. I suspect the same to be so of the OP.
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Besides, Sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, .... Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable. And let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come!" Patrick Henry
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  #27  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:35 PM
PatrickHenry2 PatrickHenry2 is offline
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Reb, prayers for you brother, I know this has been hard on you.

This is why I made the point that suicide is selfish. What it leaves behind is devestating.
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Catherine_MT Catherine_MT is offline
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Prayers said for people who have had to deal with suicide in their families.

I happen to think that murder is far worse than suicide.

Catherine
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2012, 09:50 PM
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Oscar Wilde Oscar Wilde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiskey Reb View Post
I haven't made mention till now, but I just lost my sister to suicide a month ago .... How does one ask forgiveness? .... and will never be any comfort in the void that she left behind.
I will pray to our Father for her forgiveness .... and your peace when you are ready.

O.W.
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  #30  
Old 01-29-2012, 01:59 AM
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It does not matter if your a Catholic, to benefit from the vast studies of the Monastic Church Fathers . I'm not a Roman, but close.

God understands. He Loves us, and as well as he knows every blade of grass, every little creature, he knows us all. God wants us, and wants to forgive us.

"NO," taking our own lives does not please him, but also know, pain and suffering trouble him greatly. I know, I can FEEL in my Heart, the Spirit in this.

As a young child, I knelt at my Grandmothers hospital bed, she was almost 100. She was in misery, there was no recovery. She raised me, she was the most loving, caring, GLOWING with the Holy Spirit person I've ever met. I owe her for everything I have. I miss her everyday. I Prayed for her to stay with me, please don't go, I KNOW she heard some of my pleadings. She loved me more than any person ever could, more than my mother, up to even perhaps my good Wife. God rest her Holy Soul.

I regretted not being present when she slipped away, I left her side to shower and such, and she let go. I was torn for a long while.

I KNOW she wouldn't want me to suffer in her name. I know she will hold me close again in Glory in Heaven. I know, she's proud, and loves me.

God will take her, FORGIVE her, and purify her soul. She cannot enter into the fullest of Glory until the pain of what happened, and how it touched others, is mitigated. She isn't being punished, but in all of this, the devil will use your feelings against you, to accuse you both, to pull you from Grace.

For both of your sakes, REJECT the devil, get him behind you, Pray for her to be made clean of all pain and suffering, to enter fully into Glory, and KNOW!! in you Heart, of Hearts, that YOU, have beloved waiting to hold you, and share Heaven with you in Gods light, forever.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines suicide as, "The willful taking of one’s own life; a grievous sin against the fifth commandment. A human person is neither the author nor the supreme arbiter of his life, of which God is sovereign master." However, the catechism points out that, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide." (CCC 2282)
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They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it. For it was the stumbling block of their iniquity.
Ezekiel 7:19



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