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  #31  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:26 PM
Silver Suit Silver Suit is offline
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We has gassification plants in the U.S. during WWII...

Several (WWII) war plants in Pennsylvania were built with coal-gassification facilities for alternative power because of the nearby abundance of anthracite coal. The former Alcoa plant near Pottsville PA is one such plant with a coal gassification plant on its grounds that has pretty much sat idle and crumbling away since the 40's. (The gassification building is now unusable and has been slowly stripped out for repair parts for the rest of the facility over the last 30 years)

Coal gassification was very expensive, but like most other war projects during that period money was no object compared to a shutdown due to a fuel shortage. The process in the 1940's was centered on converting coal into a gaseous fuel to run the furnaces throughout the plant, the newer process adds a few steps to turn the gas into a liquid fuel.

Current plans are in the works to transform literal mountains of waste anthracite coal (culm) into the feeder stock for modern plants. Basically, turning something useless that coal companies can't pay to get rid of into liquid fuel without affecting current coal production.

sorry, I finally had something to contribute
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  #32  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:49 AM
Stanb999 Stanb999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Suit View Post
We has gassification plants in the U.S. during WWII...

Several (WWII) war plants in Pennsylvania were built with coal-gassification facilities for alternative power because of the nearby abundance of anthracite coal. The former Alcoa plant near Pottsville PA is one such plant with a coal gassification plant on its grounds that has pretty much sat idle and crumbling away since the 40's. (The gassification building is now unusable and has been slowly stripped out for repair parts for the rest of the facility over the last 30 years)

Coal gassification was very expensive, but like most other war projects during that period money was no object compared to a shutdown due to a fuel shortage. The process in the 1940's was centered on converting coal into a gaseous fuel to run the furnaces throughout the plant, the newer process adds a few steps to turn the gas into a liquid fuel.

Current plans are in the works to transform literal mountains of waste anthracite coal (culm) into the feeder stock for modern plants. Basically, turning something useless that coal companies can't pay to get rid of into liquid fuel without affecting current coal production.

sorry, I finally had something to contribute
It's not that coal gas or producer gas was expensive. Natural gas was cheaper.
With the big discoveries in nat gas. I doubt those plants will be built.
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  #33  
Old 04-28-2012, 06:10 AM
Stanb999 Stanb999 is offline
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Of course oil and natural gas can be made abiotic...

Ever wonder where those clouds of methane and that methane snow on Jupiters moons comes from?

To make a chained hydrocarbon.

Heat carbon to crucible temperatures with minimal oxygen. But plenty of water.
You get.

Step one.
C = Carbon
and
H20 = water

Result

HH = hydrogen.
CO = Carbon Monoxide

Step two.
Add a bit more heat and time.

add

CO = carbon monoxide
and
HH= hydrogen

get
CH4 = Methane
and
C02

step 3
add heat and time...
CH4 = Methane
plus
C = carbon
plus
HH= hydrogen

you get

Chained Hydrocarbons... or OIL.




Hydrocarbons are quite plentiful in the universe. Do you suggest they are all from biologic processes?


Seasonal Methane Rain Discovered on Titan
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...april-showers/


P.S. to the OP. This is no hidden tech. It's 150 year old "technology".
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  #34  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:01 AM
Big Red Big Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsimitpo View Post
Anyone can put a bunch of words together. How do you "know" this? Who's data are you relying on?

I call parrot.
Oh, for the love of Pete. You know why I no longer include cites and links for this abiotic oil crap? It's because I have done this so many times with so many people who are so incredibly ignorant of reality and want/need/must believe that the world is something it isn't to justify ... I dunno, their own sense of self-worth, maybe? Use the Search function for this board, and you'll find plenty of information from me, MinnesotaSmith, and lots of others. But if instead you want to ignore reality and believe the deliberate fantasies of people who have a vested interest ("Buy my book/video/podcast to learn the truth!") in spinning fairy tales, please, be my guest. It's like people who point to the White Tiger field off Vietnam and say, "See? See? they drilled into granite and found oil." Without mentioning, of course, that the fractured granite overlays a sandstone oil-bearing layer. Or the gfolks who point to the outer planets and say "See? See? Methane rain!" Without mentioning, of course, that there is no methane rain or oceans of hydrocarbons on any of the inner planets because they're too freaking warm!

I give up. This is the last I'll say on this subject here. Believe what you want. It won't change the reality.

Rant Off and my apologies to other folks here.
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  #35  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:55 AM
Stanb999 Stanb999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Red View Post
Oh, for the love of Pete. You know why I no longer include cites and links for this abiotic oil crap? It's because I have done this so many times with so many people who are so incredibly ignorant of reality and want/need/must believe that the world is something it isn't to justify ... I dunno, their own sense of self-worth, maybe? Use the Search function for this board, and you'll find plenty of information from me, MinnesotaSmith, and lots of others. But if instead you want to ignore reality and believe the deliberate fantasies of people who have a vested interest ("Buy my book/video/podcast to learn the truth!") in spinning fairy tales, please, be my guest. It's like people who point to the White Tiger field off Vietnam and say, "See? See? they drilled into granite and found oil." Without mentioning, of course, that the fractured granite overlays a sandstone oil-bearing layer. Or the gfolks who point to the outer planets and say "See? See? Methane rain!" Without mentioning, of course, that there is no methane rain or oceans of hydrocarbons on any of the inner planets because they're too freaking warm!

I give up. This is the last I'll say on this subject here. Believe what you want. It won't change the reality.

Rant Off and my apologies to other folks here.

No ocean's of hydrocarbons on inner planets....

So the reaction I posted above isn't real?
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  #36  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:44 PM
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Doctor Dinero Doctor Dinero is offline
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Almost all modern refineries employ hydrocracking/hydrotreating and steam methane reformers. These technologies are descendants of the German processes. It's all about the hydrogen to carbon ratio.

Coal- minimal hydrogen
Tar sands - close to coal, several upgraders use the tech to make synthetic crude that refineries can process. Upgraders basiclly eject carbon and pump in hydrogen increasing the hydrogen to carbon ratio.
Very heavy crude - same type of upgraders in VZ to improve oil quality so refineries can process them.

One by product of this process is H2S, a very poisonous gas, that needs to be delt with. The heavier the feedstock the more impurities, like nickel and vanadium that poison the catalyst.

Another process is POX or partial oxidation, notoriously unreliable but can turn most things carbon into syngas, which can either be used as fuel or fisher troped into saturated hydrocarbon chains. Like the gas to liquid projects in the middle east. This process makes jet and diesel, not gasoline which needs lots of double bonds for octane.
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  #37  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:48 PM
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DrBulldog DrBulldog is offline
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While it would be nice that the fantasy of endless abiotic oil would be true but it simply is not and reality will not be changed. Just because Titan has seas of liquid methane does not change the reality here on Earth (and on Titan) that there is a finite supply. I agree with Big Red and MS that this has been discuss over and over before.

No one has ever drilled into the mantle and found oil. Drill to a depth deeper then a certain depth and temp. and there will not be oil. (It is called the oil window) If all of you believe that Geologists, Geochemists, Geophysicists, Oil Companies, Universities and engineers all over the world are wrong. Put together a company, put your money up, hire a rig, and drill an exploritory well. If you are right, then you will be a very wealth person. I have not seen anyone do it yet.
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  #38  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:49 AM
Desertrat Desertrat is offline
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Funny how these Abiotic Experts never find any of this abiotic oil. Where is it? Why aren't they drilling, producing and selling and getting rich, rich, rich?
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