Your opinions on baptizing at home.

[RossLunch]

It's really hard to answer if I don't have a frame of reference.

The reason I am asking for that frame of reference is so I can more intelligently address the question.

I am asking as your question was confusing. There was nothing in what I posted about Pope Aliexander VI that dealt with the question of infalliblity at all.

It dealt with peccability . .not fallibility. The Church has never taught that the Pope is impeccable - ie sinless.


Did you think infalliblity means sinlessness?

Go back and read the highlighted portion of post 140.

[Theresej]

Go back and read the highlighted portion of post 140.

Look Ross, there is nothing in there about Catholic teaching. Papal infalliblity only applies to the teaching of the Chuch in very limited circumstaces.

It does not at all apply to the personal actions .

Definition of infallliblity:

In the Vatican definition infallibility (whether of the Church at large or of the pope) is affirmed only in regard to doctrines of faith or morals

Definition of doctrine:

1. A belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.

Definition of impeccability:

not liable to sin; incapable of sin.

You highlighted:

Regardless, the personal failings of any Pope do not make or change Church teaching, or break the Church or the Office of the Chair of Peter. Just as someone sitting in the office of the president of the United States might be a criminal, that does not invalidate the Office of President itself. It means someone corrupt is occupying it at that moment.

There was nothing about infalliblity there at all. Personal failings - ie sins - are in regards to personal actions, deeds . . peccability only.


Hope that helps to clear up your misunderstanding.

[RossLunch]

Look Ross, there is nothing in there about Catholic teaching. Papal infalliblity only applies to the teaching of the Chuch in very limited circumstaces.

It does not at all apply to the personal actions .

Definition of infallliblity:

In the Vatican definition infallibility (whether of the Church at large or of the pope) is affirmed only in regard to doctrines of faith or morals

Definition of doctrine:

1. A belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.

Definition of impeccability:

not liable to sin; incapable of sin.

You highlighted:

Regardless, the personal failings of any Pope do not make or change Church teaching, or break the Church or the Office of the Chair of Peter. Just as someone sitting in the office of the president of the United States might be a criminal, that does not invalidate the Office of President itself. It means someone corrupt is occupying it at that moment.

There was nothing about infalliblity there at all. Personal failings - ie sins - are in regards to personal actions, deeds . . peccability only.


Hope that helps to clear up your misunderstanding.

ThereseJ I don't know Catholic teaching, doctrine nor nuance and I don't need to. I do firmly believe this; anyone who is a Christian can be saved regardless of their denomination and sometimes in spite of their denomination.

[Theresej]

I do firmly believe this; anyone who is a Christian can be saved regardless of their denomination and sometimes in spite of their denomination.

I totally agree. :)

[Fisheater]

Here is an example of a infallible proclamation ...

The apostolic letter of John Paul II Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, where the Great Pontiff declares that the Church has no authority to grant priestly ordination to women.

In a Dubium et Responsum, the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect says:

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25. 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

The then-Prefect bases his decision on the following statement within Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

[Melodious Musician]

Sadly, I think this is another one for The Cemetery.

[Fisheater]

Sadly, I think this is another one for The Cemetery.

Still waiting for your answer MM..... Is Jesus' Glorified Body human flesh and blood ?

[Songbird]

Yes, I believe I know exactly where you are going and they, by their own admission, are not Christian. Would you like to see the quote from their leader?

Yes..I want to see the quote.

[clearvoice]

I come from an organized (SDA) church. We believe in immersion. The pastor usually does it as head of the church. Sometimes an Elder does it (under the jurisdiction of the pastor) for various reasons, one being our pastor has three churches, another it was his grandson.

But I would say that the father as the head of the home/church would be very blessed to be able to baptize his own children. My nephews were baptized in a river.

I think its wonderful that your children understand and have requested baptism.

Who's your head ?


And he [Messiah] is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.


1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.



Not seeing the pastor as head of the Church ... that's a doctrine the Nicolaitans - Greek for conquering the laity . promote.


That some how a man is a mediator rather than Messiah, is a common error.

["Capt. Midnight"]

A Layperson is fully able to do a Baptism that is fully valid, and ought to be, in any Church or Congregation of like minded Believers.

Of course Salvation of our Souls is possible outside of Christs Holy Church. But being that the Holy Church, is the mystical body of Christ on this Earth, as HE himself desired it to be, then a new born infant left alone from that same body is easy prey to the destroyer.

When Christ left this Earth, he made an investment of Faith into his Disciples, and EVEN though Peter, FAR from a prefect person, and even walking with Jesus, and LIVING countless Miracles, had let him down many times, and also did so after his Crucifixion.

Warts and all, sinners and all, THAT investment of Faith WAS either valid, and EVEN then, knowing that bad men, and bad times, would certainly come, and the SAME people who he shed his blood for, WOULD let him down, he STILL made that Investment of Faith.

It was either valid, or it was not.


You can yell, shout, jump up and down, but bad people or not, it is so.

It isn't about being right, it just is.

My Family and I have been on the rolls at Baptist Churches, Church of Christ, and a Methodist one.

The Further I get into my Seminarian studies, the more clear it becomes, and the more distinct the futility of the required attacks on what is have to be, to validate this or that Congregation.


The problems are rather clear. Was that investment of Faith enough, or was it not?

One requires to insult that VERY act, to validate their own expressions of free will, being that one or more aspects of what is, that being not the RC Church, but that one or more aspects of the Gospels is not accepted, and our own personal understanding, or our choice is made.

There are over 23 Episcopate's that have worked constantly to remain in Communion. The Romans are but one of them.

The reason St. Peter's chair is so fancy, and most of it is polish and fresh paint, a little gold foil, is not to comfort the Popes behind, but to honor the mountain of bones of Slain Saints, who died, in an imitation of Christ.

That investment of Faith was also valid.

I find it rather troubling that the further one wanders, the easier it becomes to say nasty, vile things about others in the name being "right."

It's NOT about being right. It's about total Love, total surrender of our will to his, even if it might seem scary, even if it might hurt, it will be ok.


Some of the stuff I read on here; would some of you die for me? it IS a hard thing to ponder, it IS easy to say stuff like that on a board, but that is what we are trying to work towards, imitating Christ.

Not being right.

And the further we get from that Investment of Faith............