Are the Spiritual gifts still at work today? Hear what God says in the matter.

[Off-Grid Organics]

This special assembly of whom we all would want to be a part of, is forewarned of having little power (dunamis)...

Rev 3:7-8 “And to the messenger of the assembly in Philadelphia write, ‘He who is set-apart, He who is true, He who has the key of Dawiḏ, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens, says this: “I know your works – see, I have set before you an open door, and no one is able to shut it – that you have little power, yet have guarded My Word, and have not denied My Name.

[Forty9er]

Hey 9er,

I certainly can't disagree with you, in that we don't see those gifts in operation like we read about. More in a moment.

But to blatantly describe those gifts as gone forever, I have a problem with, especially when someone tries to make scripture jump through hoops. Since God gives those gifts as He sees fit.

Now back.

The ones you mention, as referencing those gifts, and there are some more that I have read about. Clement of Rome is one.

I think there may be at least 2 reasons for this, or suspect. 1) they are in operation, just not in the scale, or publicity that we think they should be, meaning more on the individual level. Of which I have personally experienced first hand several of those gifts. Not done by me, but rather to me. 2) not to lay blame on anyone, but it should be noticed that in one village.....Capernaum (?) Jesus said he couldn't do many miracles due to their lack of faith. Again, not laying blame, or guilt tripping anyone, but could there be a general movement away from faith? How many people pray for healing BEFORE they go to the doctor, just saying. Just speculating, and I know it. 3) we don't stand as much in need of them as we use to. My comparison of tongues in Acts 2, may not be as needed because people take classes in different languages. Just saying.

There is another thing. I would never put the 12 Apostles on the same level as any other preacher. They are/where special men. I think we, us, put them on that level, no harm, no foul. Apostle means "sent ones" and that pretty much covers what we mean when we say "Missionary". Barnabas and a couple others were called apostles, and sent ones "Missionary" seems to fit. Just saying.

Just a couple of thoughts, and who knows we may stand in need of those gifts the closer we get to the last days.

I certainly don't have the answers to why the gifts aren't in operation, at least, as we read about them in the Bible. But still think they do exist, and have actually seen some of those listed in Romans 12 in operation in a group of Christians.

First, I want to say that I am thankful that you have received the benefit from God given gifts to the Church. That is great and the way the Body of Christ is to function. And I would agree with your statement about the role of faith in these kinds of things.

With regard to BGA and his beliefs regarding the gifts, even though we may disagree with his Scriptural justification for his beliefs, I think you can see why he may feel as he does. He not only has observed counterfeit gifts of the Spirit but was previously involved in them.

And I would add that I think this whole issue of counterfeit gifts is a major problem in the Church that continues to deceive many people without being adequately addressed. So not only do you have people being deceived into thinking something is of God when it is not, but on the other hand you can have Christians legitimately exercising their true gifts but they can be thought to be just more of the counterfeit.

[CaryC]

With regard to BGA and his beliefs regarding the gifts, even though we may disagree with his Scriptural justification for his beliefs, I think you can see why he may feel as he does. He not only has observed counterfeit gifts of the Spirit but was previously involved in them.

Absolutely! And I feel his pain, so to speak on that. Not only that, but am very thankful he "saw the light". It is also my hope, that in spite of his feelings towards the Apostolic Movement, and the fakeness of it all, that the pendulum wouldn't swing to far the other way, and condemn everything concerning spiritual gifts.

You know some of what me, and Sherree experienced, and there is a bunch we haven't shared, and at first we were very mad, then it almost became hatred, towards those who would, not only hold to certain non-biblical doctrine, but treat other Christians the way they did. Going in that direction is a bad thing, and with mercy, and grace we have come back from those feelings as well, and are sort of centered. That doesn't mean we hang with those folks, but don't mistreat them either.

And I would add that I think this whole issue of counterfeit gifts is a major problem in the Church that continues to deceive many people without being adequately addressed. So not only do you have people being deceived into thinking something is of God when it is not, but on the other hand you can have Christians legitimately exercising their true gifts but they can be thought to be just more of the counterfeit.

Totally agree as well. And it's not just in those denom's that would pervert the gifts either. There may be an even bigger crowd that would pervert the Gospel so much so, as to make it meaningless. Namely the Seeker Friendly denom's. Smiling Joel Osteen, and Rick Warren at the top of mega church list. Believe it, or not, so is Paula White, gag.

Just as a point of interest, based on the above, is it any wonder then, we don't see the true gifts of the Spirit in operation. Just a wondering observation.

Ya know, would God pour His Spirit out on people if they have a personal agenda, getting rich, nickels, noses, and number, and doing that on the blood of Jesus just makes me want to go get my 97 lb. Scofield. Kind of like calling fire down from heaven sort of thing, but Jesus wouldn't let the Sons of Thunder do it, let the wheat, and tares grow together. All God wants us to do is, be able to defend the gospel. He knows what He's doing.

[Sherree]

With regard to BGA and his beliefs regarding the gifts, even though we may disagree with his Scriptural justification for his beliefs, I think you can see why he may feel as he does. He not only has observed counterfeit gifts of the Spirit but was previously involved in them.

Absolutely. We've been there, done that, too, Forty9er, so we do understand.

And I would add that I think this whole issue of counterfeit gifts is a major problem in the Church that continues to deceive many people without being adequately addressed. So not only do you have people being deceived into thinking something is of God when it is not, but on the other hand you can have Christians legitimately exercising their true gifts but they can be thought to be just more of the counterfeit.

I agree. My question is how does one address the issue of false gifts in the church? Believe me, Cary has tried to no avail with his own mother. Her being caught up in all of this fakery contributed to her death.

[CaryC]

Just throwing out some thoughts:

Moses was a prophet.....and God shall raise up a Prophet like unto me..... And before him Jacob prophesied leaning on his staff.

Then when the Nation of Israel entered the land there was no prophets. Only Judges, for some roughly 400 years. Then when the kings came on the scene there was prophets again.

Not going to get in a dispensational argument. What I am saying is, that it seems just because there may not be any prophets in the land at the present time, doesn't mean that gift is done away, as evidenced by history. What it may mean is that there is darkness at noon day.

I got a lot of thoughts banging around in my head, does that mean it's empty? I may not be able to get back today, got some projects to attend to with a friend.

[Laura19]

It seems a lot of us have been abused by the fakery and excesses. I stated that in my first response. So much that I began attending more evangelical churches than Pentecostal/charismatic. Of course, they have their own problem now with making worship more of a concert with the flashing lights and darkness.

We just have to remember those gardens I mentioned previously and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Others are hungering too, remembering the days when the fullness, the thickness of the Holy Spirit was so deliciously perceived in the church service without any hoopla. I think perhaps today the gifts may be more exercised between individuals, ya know, where 2 or 3 are gathered together than a mega church service. And us old timers have learned, the greatest of these is love.

As George Carlin said, "A cynic is just a disappointed idealist". You have to fight those feelings and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Maybe BGA, God is bringing up all of this is in you as He wants to give you a fresh revelation of Himself. I love when that happens. We go from glory to glory....not just earth to heaven.....but in the new things God shows us about our sins, our trials, etc.

[Forty9er]

And it's not just in those denom's that would pervert the gifts either. There may be an even bigger crowd that would pervert the Gospel so much so, as to make it meaningless. Namely the Seeker Friendly denom's. Smiling Joel Osteen, and Rick Warren at the top of mega church list. Believe it, or not, so is Paula White, gag.

Couldn't agree more. I was actually once in Rick Warren's church, but not to attend a service. But that was before he was widely known.

[Forty9er]

My question is how does one address the issue of false gifts in the church?

That is a good question. I think many people are taken in by the deception because they want to believe it is true. So whatever the solution is I think it starts with the truth of Scripture to counteract the deception.

[Laura19]

That is a good question. I think many people are taken in by the deception because they want to believe it is true. So whatever the solution is I think it starts with the truth of Scripture to counteract the deception.

Lovingly state your case with pastor in private. More than likely, if he's been letting it go on, he probably doesn't see what you see. And then will get irritated with you. Shake the dust off and move on if you feel what you have been seeing is an abomination that you just can't be around anymore.

I have gone to Saddleback Church 3 times, last time was August 2016. My son lives about 5 minutes from the church. Honestly, I have to say there was nothing offensive there. Preaching was good, Sunday School for grandchildren good. 2 times it was another preacher, once it was Rick on video. I don't even know what Rick is currently saying that is still bothersome, I don't research any of that anymore. Maybe he's grown on the journey? I don't know. But just basing on the church service itself, I wasn't threatened or sickened to my stomach. My son doesn't attend there so I can only base on 3 times I went.

I have to tell you I have been far more distressed going to evangelical churches here in the heartland of Indiana. As I said before, worship is a concert. Walls are painted black and flashing lights all over the place. But again, I've heard some fine preaching there as well. But is it like the good ole days? No.
I'm hoping a lot of this is fad. In talking to different millennials, in addition to my own 4 kids, they don't like that concert affect either.

I do hunger for a church service with reverence to God, open to moving of the Holy Spirit. When these pastors have the sermons for the next 2 months already written out, how can the Holy Spirit even break in?

[Sherree]

Lovingly state your case with pastor in private. More than likely, if he's been letting it go on, he probably doesn't see what you see. And then will get irritated with you. Shake the dust off and move on if you feel what you have been seeing is an abomination that you just can't be around anymore.

BTDT, too, Laura, twice. The first time, the pastor ran Cary and myself off, was told to never come back. That he was God's authority in that church and no one had the right to tell him he was wrong. We left. As we were leaving that church that day, God gave me a prophetic vision for that church. It came to pass. This church was Baptist.

Second time, the pastor called Cary and myself witches, and accused us of casting spells over his congregation. We left. This church was Charismatic.

To tell ya the truth Laura. It has been our alone time with God, and in small home fellowship settings that we have witnessed the true moving of the Holy Spirit manifested in different gifts of the Spirit.