Esquire
I agreed with you until I read this.
This is blasphemy. The Lord says that He will preserve His Word forever. In fact, in John, Christ is described as The Word.Originally Posted by Theresej
Psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Cats are so vile the Bible does not so much as mention them."
--Natty Threads
"I have come to the conclusion that people are strange."
--Firedance
Esquire
Actually, the eating of the unleavened bread is known as the Passover--it was practiced in the Torah long before the Catholic church existed.
As for hearing the Holy Spirit infallibly--the Holy Spirit IS infallible; you're either hearing Him, or you aren't. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will teach us once we become a child of God.
1 Corinthians 2:12-16
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
"Cats are so vile the Bible does not so much as mention them."
--Natty Threads
"I have come to the conclusion that people are strange."
--Firedance
Land Owner
To all members of this board, I have a confession to make.
While I am ashamed to admit it, I did have some fun banging heads wrestling and contending for the truth, I did it for the thrill of the hunt and have unwittingly operated outside of Love. All Nicolaitanes, please accept my apologies, you are allowed to make up your minds on how you want to walk and because God has given you free will, I'm going to stop and desist in my unlovely attacks.
In fact, something is up in the air and it isn't good, I'm going to spend time in my prayer closet and get in the cleft of the Rock. Jesus is my hiding place and I would highly recommend for all to do the same.
The Lord has made me to realize that death is fixing to come in a large way here in the United States. It's time to seek the Lord and stay in Him. If death comes for me, I will be found in Jesus and I hope to see you all in Jesus.
It's now time to fast, pray unceasingly and seek the Lord...
Love ya and run to the Lord now!
The glorious church is about to make it's appearance, alot sooner than I thought, too! The things contained in the book of Acts are going to become commonplace among the prayed up believers walking in the Spirit and Love. Holy Ghost air travel ala' Philip, Jesus healing people through the believer's shadows and the like...
It's time to get ready, in the midst of all of this death and judgment on the land, the church will begin to shine with the reflected glory that will be coming from the believers who are steadfastly gazing upon the Son.
The "greater works than these shall they do" days are almost on us, start spending time in the Lord now!
See ya and I love all of you, my brethren...
Pride Always Has A Better Idea.
And it's not your job to mold me to your likeness!
_______________________________________________
Mat 22:37-40 (msg) Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'
This is the most important, the first on any list.
But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."
Esquire
blessings on you, bill.......
For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow..............Ecclesiastes 1:18
LORD please forgive us our unkind, unloving ways.........ALL OF US..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LraOiHUltak
Land Owner
Thank you again for sharing your opinon.
It is puzzling though. How does saying the scriptures were never meant to stand alone in any way say that God's word will not be preserved forever?
Last time I checked "alone" does NOT equal "forever"
So I see no logical justification for the claim of blasphemy above.
Additionally, the passage from Psalms is not saying what you are using it to say
Psalms
Chapter 12
1 1 For the leader; "upon the eighth." A psalm of David. 2 Help, LORD, for no one loyal remains; the faithful have vanished from the human race 3 Those who tell lies to one another speak with deceiving lips and a double heart. 4 May the LORD cut off all deceiving lips, and every boastful tongue, 5 Those who say, "By our tongues we prevail; when our lips speak, who can lord it over us?" 6 "Because they rob the weak, and the needy groan, I will now arise," says the LORD; "I will grant safety to whoever longs for it." 7 The promises of the LORD are sure, silver refined in a crucible, silver purified seven times. 8 LORD, protect us always; preserve us from this generation. 9 On every side the wicked strut; the shameless are extolled by all.Barnes' Notes on the BibleNow ss God's word only written? Of course not.
"Thou shalt keep them That is, the persons referred to in Psalm 12:5 - the poor and the needy who were suffering from the wrongs inflicted on them. The idea is, that God would guard and defend them. They were safe in his hands. Compare Psalm 37:3-7.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Thou shalt keep them - thou shalt preserve them - Instead of the pronoun them in these clauses, several MSS., with the Septuagint, the Vulgate, and the Arabic, have us. The sense is equally good in both readings. God did bring forth the Israelites from Babylon, according to his word; he separated them from that generation. and reinstated them in their own land, according to his word; and most certainly he has preserved them from generation to generation to the present day, in a most remarkable manner.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Thou shall keep them, O Lord,.... Not the words before mentioned, as Aben Ezra explains it, for the affix is masculine and not feminine; not but God has wonderfully kept and preserved the sacred writings; and he keeps every word of promise which he has made; and the doctrines of the Gospel will always continue from one generation to another; but the sense is, that God will keep the poor and needy, and such as he sets in safety, as Kimchi rightly observes: they are not their own keepers, but God is the keeper of them; he keeps them by his power, and in his Son, in whose hands they are, and who is able to keep them from falling; they are kept by him from a total and final falling away; from the dominion and damning power of sin, and from being devoured by Satan, and from the evil of the world: and this the psalmist had good reason to believe, because of the love of God to them, his covenant with them, and the promises of safety and salvation he has made unto them;
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever; or "thou shalt preserve him" (p); that is, everyone of the poor and needy, from the wicked generation of men in which they live, from being corrupted or intimidated by them; and who are described in the beginning of the psalm. Some take these words to be a prayer, "keep thou them, O Lord, and preserve them", &c. (q); and so the following words may be thought to be a reason or argument enforcing the request.
Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
(Heb.: 12:8-9) The supplicatory complaint contained in the first strophe has passed into an ardent wish in the second; and now in the fourth there arises a consolatory hope based upon the divine utterance which was heard in the third strophe. The suffix eem in Psalm 12:8 refers to the miserable and poor; the suffix ennu in Psalm 12:8 (him, not: us, which would be pointed תצרנוּ, and more especially since it is not preceded by תשׁמרנוּ) refers back to the man who yearns for deliverance mentioned in the divine utterance, Psalm 12:6.
In the passage from Gosple of John you quoted, he calls Jesus "THE WORD" - LOGOS.
Jesus is called the Logos, He is not called the written word.
I gave the definition of Logos before . .
word"It is not the Traditions that are written that are called "Logos" by Paul, but the Traditions that were taught verbally -
G3056
λόγος
logos
Thayer Definition:
1) of speech
1a) a word,uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea2) its use as respect to the MIND alone
1b) what someone has said
1b1) a word1c) discourse
1b2) the sayings of God
1b3) decree, mandate or order
1b4) of the moral precepts given by God
1b5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
1b6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
1c1) the act of speaking, speech1d) doctrine, teaching
1c2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
1c3)a kind or style of speaking
1c4)a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
1e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
1f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
1g)the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating3) In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world’s life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man’s salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
2b) account, i.e. regard, consideration
2c) account, i.e. reckoning, score
2d) account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
2e) relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
2e1) reason would2f) reason, cause, ground
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3004
Citing in TDNT: 4:69, 505
The spoken, verbal teachings - traditions taught via logos - are placed before the written in Paul's command to believers above."whether by WORD - LOGOS"
Last edited by Theresej; 05-02-2011 at 01:37 AM.
Land Owner
Dayton, thank you so much for your apology. Even though I am not a "Nicolaitane" I appreciate it.
God bless you.
Land Owner
WOW, sense in the cemetaty! thanks housekeeper
~Kate
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees… If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. —Martin Luther, Christmas Sermon, 1529.
Land Owner
Yes, I am well aware of where it came from. However, the point I was making is our us of it does not make it a seder.
We absolutely agree on this. :)As for hearing the Holy Spirit infallibly--the Holy Spirit IS infallible;
See .. for me this presents a problem logistically. Bear with me for a moment.you're either hearing Him, or you aren't. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will teach us once we become a child of God.
The Holy Spirit speaks infallibly. But does He force us to hear infallibly?
I am well familiar with this passage . . . however. . do you contend that believers have the mind of Christ perfectly?1 Corinthians 2:12-16
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Do you contend believers are infallible in all their understanding of spiritual things?
If they are, then how is it that Paul had to rebuke so many believers who have the mind of Christ for various MISunderstandings of spiritual things?
In the very book you quote from, Paul rebuked them for their errors and for being carnal rather than spiritual:
1Cr 3:1¶And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.
1Cr 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things,[is it] a great thingif we shall reapyour carnal things?
Last edited by Theresej; 05-02-2011 at 01:42 AM.
Land Owner
Thank you for trying to bring some sanity to some of the accusations being thrown out in this thread against the Catholic Church.
Most child molesters are married heterosexual. . so being gay does not make one predisposed to being a child molester, and being celibate does not either.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the characteristics and behavioral indicators of a pedophile, also referred to as a serial child sex abuser include the following:Additionally, the problem within the Catholic Church is minute compared to other churches and secular organizations and institutions. There are sinners everywhere.
http://www.suite101.com/content/the-...dophile-a50767
- Usually an adult male but some women also sexually abuse children
- Often a child molestation victim themselves
- Seeks out children of the age group they were when victimized
- Usually married and hard-working
- Employed within a wide range of occupations
- Usually well-liked and respected community members
- Often well-educated and regular church-goers
- Relates better with children than adults
- Some prefer boys, some prefer girls
- Usually prefers a specific age group of children
- Takes and collects photographs of victims while dressed, nude or in sexual poses
- Collects child-adult pornography
- Seeks to lower inhibitions of potential victims
- Regularly attends children’s events in the community
- Volunteers in youth organizations
- Coaches children’s sports
- Chaperones camping or overnight trips
- Frequents video arcades, playgrounds or shopping malls
- Offers babysitting services
- Seeks jobs where children are easily accessible
- Befriends parents, especially single mothers, to gain access to children
- Participates in internet gaming with children
- Joins social networking websites such as MySpace, Facebook, and other social media
- Become foster parents
- Seeks job opportunities where children are easily-accessible
But it is hate and ignorance that lashes out in a disproportionate manner at the Catholic priesthood while turning a blind eye to bigger problems of the same in protestant churches, our schools, and other institutions to which we entrust our children.
Last time I checked, hate is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Additionally, being gay is seen by the Catholic church as a gravely disordered condition, making one unsuitable for the priesthood, as would other gravely disordered conditions. The Church's official policy does not permit thsoe with gravely disordered conditions to become priests. That this happened as much as it did in America is a testimony to the intense attack on the Catholic Church that satan has been waging against Her, trying to break her.
He has not succeeded.
Esquire
Still at it, I see.
Its been informative to say the least reading the responses from those of you well educated in apologetics for the Catholic church. It didn't change my opinion, however, as my position was actually bolstered by those in the opposition.
I'm certainly not a Biblical scholar but I know what the Truth is due to the blessings and guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Truth is a lot simpler than many would believe and it doesn't take the trappings of ritualistic vanity to find it.
Blessings to each of you.
Impeach the Kenyan!
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