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  #1  
Old 12-26-2011, 08:24 AM
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Default REPORT: Japan's response to Fukushima was "riddled with problems"

Japan probe finds nuclear disaster response failed
By YURI KAGEYAMA, Associated Press – 2 hours ago
TOKYO (AP) — Japan's response to the nuclear crisis that followed the March 11 tsunami was confused and riddled with problems, including an erroneous assumption an emergency cooling system was working and a delay in disclosing dangerous radiation leaks, a report revealed Monday.
The disturbing picture of harried and bumbling workers and government officials scrambling to respond to the problems at Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant was depicted in the report detailing a government investigation.

Read more here: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...dac1dccbcf47c7
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:15 AM
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Default A nuclear mafiosa

There is something wholly unique to the nuclear industry and it is not that it's a heretofore unknown energy source in the history of mankind. The singular feature of the nuclear industry is that from its inception, in both military and commercial areas, it has been (and is still) characterized by lies. There's no more gentle way to describe it.

I was previously very "pro-nuclear" and am still fascinated by the technology. It's a field I have been interested in and have studied for decades and it's history is replete with tremendous intellectual achievement and many instances of both intellectual and physical courage.

But...

Across continents and cultures, it is also a field imbued with a deeply-ingrained culture of mendacity. In part, this is somewhat understandably a function of nuclear development being largely a product of deeply classified military development, yet it goes much further and deeper than that.

Long before there was any thought of nuclear weapons or the Manhatten Project, there was already a thriving, worldwide nuclear industry. Many of you will be familiar with the French scientists, the Curies, and the development of Radium and X-rays in both medicine and industry. Even at that early stage of the nuclear era, lies and cover-ups had become common.

I am not aware of any other field in which inherent dishonesty is such a hallmark of the trade. If readers are interested, I may do a longer post or article on this and document more prominent examples.

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  #3  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:24 AM
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Doc1- I agree with your sentiments. I think, however, that lies and deceipt are rampant in many other industries. Let me name a few:

medical research
food/agriculture
government
banking


Perhaps the one thing about the nuclear industry is its irreversible hazards to worldwide health. GMO foods come close to this, but I think the nuclear power industry wins the award.

On the first day when I heard they released steam from the containment vessel, I knew they had already begun lying about the danger. The perfect storm was set up with:

+ poor design from GE and snuffing of engineers' warnings
+ consensus mentality of Jap management
+ complicit coverage by news agencies
+ concern that panic is worse than radioactive poisoning

Another perfect storm is brewing in America with these:

+ poor design from GE and snuffing of engineers' warnings
+ profit motives of management
+ complicit coverage by news agencies
+ concern that panic is worse than radioactive poisoning
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandFree View Post
concern that panic is worse than radioactive poisoning
To those whose livelihoods depend on managing public opinion, there is absolutely nothing more terrifying than an uncontrolled crowd response.
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:41 AM
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I think "most" of us here at TTOL realized the massive cover-up for the git-go, but having our "knowing" validated just makes it worse in my mind as the damage is done, continues to be done, and there is not a dern thing we, or apparently anybody, can do to mitigate it. Granted, the learning experience "may" prevent this happening again as disasterously, but we, as a world, are still stuck with the far-reaching results of the March mess.
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Old 12-26-2011, 04:39 PM
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Default game changer

Points are all well taken on the moral failures of the nuclear industry, but it no longer matters IMHO. Simply put, whatever the powers that be say, or spin, or deceive the objective, on the ground reality is massive amounts of toxic radiation have been, are being and will continue to be released from the fukishima reactors. done deal. do not pass go. don not collect $200. Again, fukishima is now continuously radiating the entire northern hemisphere from aerial releases, as well as having contaminated the pacific ocean for hundreds of miles around Japan to a depth of nearly one mile. these scientific facts are no longer open for debate and so whatever information released by TEPCO, or Japan's government, or the mainsteam media or whoever are no longer relevant to the objective reality of a global radiation disaster.

Further, it no longers matters at this point since even if the releases were stopped today, which they can't be, the damage has been done. for sure Japan's government took a lethal situation and made it much worse by burning millions of tons of highly radioactive debris in Tokyo's trash incinerators, but even that no longer matters since the stuff has been burned and the radiation released.

At this point, we have severely contaminated with radiation the entire pacific food chain, a large chunk of the physical ocean, as well as large chunks of the entire northern hemisphere, especially the US west coast. and that is that.

2012 will reveal, further reveal, the ongoing negative helath impacts from the fukishima radiation releases. TEPCO et al lies notwithstanding these negative health impacts are ongoing and will continue to increase in both scope and intensity over the next few years. Again, if there is one thing about fukishima people need to understand it is this: it is an ongoing, multi year, even multidecade toxic radiation release disaster.

Now when you get your mind around the multi year/decade ongoing toxic radiation release part then you realize just how much a game changer fukishima really is. Remember all those sci fi movies about a radiated earth with genetic mutations in the human population? Well, we are getting there, especially if the design flaws in GE designed nuclear plants bear fruit in the USA and other countries.

The key thing about fukishima is that its design is flawed. since there are dozens of similiar flawed nuclear plants all over the world the question is what happens when they fail under stress in the future. The USA is now extending the operation life of many US GE design plants that were built in the 1970's and have exceeded their design operational life. hence, we can expect still more nuclear disasters here in the USA when these plants fail from being pushed beyond their limits. In engineering you can only push a system for so long beyond what it was designed and built to do before it simply fails.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc1 View Post
I was previously very "pro-nuclear" and am still fascinated by the technology.
Same here. I used to be pro-nuclear and would still like to be, but Fukushima really drove home the point that, even with good engineering and even if everything were done right, this is a fundamentally fragile technology. Back to the drawing board.
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Old 12-26-2011, 06:48 PM
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Default There are plenty more of those, Doc1...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc1 View Post
There is something wholly unique to the nuclear industry and it is not that it's a heretofore unknown energy source in the history of mankind. The singular feature of the nuclear industry is that from its inception, in both military and commercial areas, it has been (and is still) characterized by lies.
http://www.dilbert.com/2011-02-20/
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2011, 07:18 PM
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Me three - I was *very* pro-nuclear. I have experience with the technology from the Navy, where it is pretty effective.

However, any industry that requires special government dispensation to get liability off-loaded is an industry to be wary of.

Just as the banks do not have to pay off bad bets, neither does the nuclear industry. If a nuke problem caused $50 billion in damage - guess what? The liability is capped at far less - $2 billion, I think - the cost of a single plant.

Also, creating waste that is dangerous for thousands of years? How can one mitigate that liability?

You can't.

Earl
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
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Default Okay, one misleading point there, Earl...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl Sinclair View Post
Me three - I was *very* pro-nuclear. I have experience with the technology from the Navy, where it is pretty effective.

However, any industry that requires special government dispensation to get liability off-loaded is an industry to be wary of.

Just as the banks do not have to pay off bad bets, neither does the nuclear industry. If a nuke problem caused $50 billion in damage - guess what? The liability is capped at far less - $2 billion, I think - the cost of a single plant.

Also, creating waste that is dangerous for thousands of years? How can one mitigate that liability?

You can't.

Earl
The VOLUME of nuclear waste is extremely small compared to the amount of power it generated, it's not really an issue from the technical standpoint. There are salt domes (where fractures commonly heal themselves) that have been mechanically stable for millions of years. The same is true of some large blocks of igneous rock (with relatively high melting points). It'd be relatively easy to put nuclear waste in such places.

Nuclear wasted disposal is not a scientific problem, but a political one.

Besides. odds are fair we'll have valuable uses for the stuff one day. (Gasoline and skim milk used to be considered valueless, for example.)
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