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Old 12-28-2011, 07:49 AM
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DeoVindice DeoVindice is offline
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Default Patriot Act & NDAA: Repealing the Bill of Rights

http://lewrockwell.com/paul/paul790.html

The NDAA Repeals More Rights


Little by little, in the name of fighting terrorism, our Bill of Rights is being repealed. The 4th amendment has been rendered toothless by the PATRIOT Act. No more can we truly feel secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects when now there is an exception that fits nearly any excuse for our government to search and seize our property. Of course, the vast majority of Americans may say “I’m not a terrorist, so I have no reason to worry.” However, innocent people are wrongly accused all the time. The Bill of Rights is there precisely because the founders wanted to set a very high bar for the government to overcome in order to deprive an individual of life or liberty. To lower that bar is to endanger everyone. When the bar is low enough to include political enemies, our descent into totalitarianism is virtually assured.


The PATRIOT Act, as bad is its violation of the 4th Amendment, was just one step down the slippery slope. The recently passed National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) continues that slip toward tyranny and in fact accelerates it significantly. The main section of concern, Section 1021 of the NDAA Conference Report, does to the 5th Amendment what the PATRIOT Act does to the 4th. The 5th Amendment is about much more than the right to remain silent in the face of government questioning. It contains very basic and very critical stipulations about due process of law. The government cannot imprison a person for no reason and with no evidence presented or access to legal counsel.

The dangers in the NDAA are its alarmingly vague, undefined criteria for who can be indefinitely detained by the US government without trial. It is now no longer limited to members of al Qaeda or the Taliban, but anyone accused of “substantially supporting” such groups or “associated forces.” How closely associated? And what constitutes "substantial" support? What if it was discovered that someone who committed a terrorist act was once involved with a charity? Or supported a political candidate? Are all donors of that charity or supporters of that candidate now suspect, and subject to indefinite detainment? Is that charity now an associated force?

Additionally, this legislation codifies in law for the first time authority to detain Americans that has to this point only been claimed by President Obama. According to subsection (e) of section 1021, “[n]othing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.” This means the president’s widely expanded view of his own authority to detain Americans indefinitely even on American soil is for the first time in this legislation codified in law. That should chill all of us to our cores.

The Bill of Rights has no exemptions for "really bad people" or terrorists or even non-citizens. It is a key check on government power against any person. That is not a weakness in our legal system; it is the very strength of our legal system. The NDAA attempts to justify abridging the bill of rights on the theory that rights are suspended in a time of war, and the entire Unites States is a battlefield in the War on Terror. This is a very dangerous development indeed. Beware.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:21 AM
bagpiper bagpiper is offline
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How many other candidates for High Office are saying these things?

America
Rest In Peace
1776-2011

Time to Clean House, and, stand 'em up against the wall...
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:40 AM
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DeoVindice DeoVindice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagpiper View Post
How many other candidates for High Office are saying these things?

America
Rest In Peace
1776-2011

Time to Clean House, and, stand 'em up against the wall...
I'd contend that America died in 1861...
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Anna Anna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagpiper View Post
How many other candidates for High Office are saying these things?
Yes - but will he bring this up in a future GOP debate without being asked about it? Making mention of this in a debate will alert a wide audience of people who aren't aware of this because the MSM will not cover it. I'm a big supporter of Paul's, but I think he needs to be much more aggressive in getting info out there given the spotlight he now has. I was hoping he'd have sought an opportunity in the last debate to put it out there but he didn't. Re: the debate before that one, he mentioned that no one brought up the question. Of course they won't bring up the question. It's for him to squeeze it into one of his answers.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:58 AM
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I clicked around on the CofC, reading a few other threads....not really wanting to read this one. Finally, I reluctantly came in. No offense to you, Deo Vindice -- you are one of the best posters on the Tree. I just know in my gut that this is the "big story" of 2011, though most Americans never, ever heard about it. So sad. It just makes me sick.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:04 AM
MtnGal MtnGal is offline
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I don't believe all that voted for this believe it, doubt even more than a dozen or so even looked at the law before they voted. The money(bribes) and promises(power) were too great for them to pass up.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Anna Anna is offline
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I don't believe all that voted for this believe it, doubt even more than a dozen or so even looked at the law before they voted. The money(bribes) and promises(power) were too great for them to pass up.
My congresscritter voted for it and according to her:

Quote:
There has been some controversy over a handful of provisions in the NDAA, and I want to assure you that the legislation in no way changes or undermines our constitutional or statutory rights. The NDAA simply codifies current law, protecting civil liberties, like habeas corpus, that currently exist for American citizens. Please know that I am committed to both the safety of our country and the sanctity of our rights, and I will continue to fight for both these causes in Congress.
While I may consider other congresspeople who approved this bill as intentionally deceptive if not downright criminal, in this instance, because of what I know about this congresswoman and her voting history (she's a rubber stamp for Obama), she is one of those who is completely CLUELESS and believes EVERYTHING she is told by the administration. Spineless!
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:04 AM
kadosh kadosh is offline
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Anything that materially changes the tenets of the Constitution must be in the form of a Constitutional Amendment and must be ratified by the states. Consequently any law that appears to contradict or modify the Constitution or Bill of Rights can and should be treated by We The People as null and void.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:23 PM
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Oscar Wilde Oscar Wilde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadosh View Post
.... any law that appears to contradict or modify the Constitution or Bill of Rights can and should be treated by We The People as null and void.
.... or as a hostile effort to subjugate us. Ignoring problems won't resolve them.

O.W.
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